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dirtyharry30

701 Countershaft seal leaking from new.

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I have a 2019 701 SM.  Countershaft started leaking during the first 100 miles, if not sooner.  I am on other forums for this bike and others have experienced the same issue, but no one has a definitive reason for the problem.  Some have had the dealer replace the seals, but leaking has continued.  I just installed a speedisleeve (+.011 thickness) and that has not helped.  I have a new seal, but Easteregging parts is not my style.  I want to know why it is leaking and fix the 'problem.'  The sleeve is 1.2563", a few thousandths under 32mm, which is the seal I.D.  The groove for the inner O-ring is about 0.050 and the O-ring measures about 0.065, so at this point, I am open to all suggestions and opinions.  Thanks for your help.  I have not read on this forum about this problem, that is why I am asking.  Again, thanks for any and all responses.

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So, you inserted a thin sleeve between the shaft and the seal? Ain't never herd of that..:thinking:  Here's some random input 

I would not expect the CS and seal has ever been redesigned on the 690/701. If they are all the same, then it's not a rampant problem on this motor.

If 2019 701s are seeing this in numbers then... possible the manufacture got a bad batch of seals or shafts. 

If the seal is eat up it has to be replaced. If the next seal fails then the shaft is suspect. Why not let the dealer just replace the seal?

Running the chain too tight will cause it to leak on KTM's with PDS rear suspension. With a linkage it's not as common to get it too tight. 

 

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Thanks for your input.  Seal failure/oil leaks have been widespread, not just 2019s.  It's not been 'rampant' but has been more than a few.  I am leaning towards the 'bad batch' theory, so I will be replacing it soon.  I am doing the repair myself, because I don't have any faith in the mechanical skills of the dealership where I purchased it.  Brand new bike, bolts missing in the rear fender, no fuel--kind of disappointing.  I worked at a dealership, years ago, and I would have been fired if I had delivered a bike in that condition.  First impressions are very important.  A Speedisleeve, trade name, is for repairing worn shafts.  They work great.  Never heard of running chain too tight to cause seal leakage, only excessive chain and sprocket wear, but I can understand how it could flex things in a bad way.  Again, thanks for your input.  I will update when I have completed the replacement and test ridden.

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On 3/23/2019 at 8:36 AM, dirtyharry30 said:

Thanks for your input.  Seal failure/oil leaks have been widespread, not just 2019s.  It's not been 'rampant' but has been more than a few.  I am leaning towards the 'bad batch' theory, so I will be replacing it soon.  I am doing the repair myself, because I don't have any faith in the mechanical skills of the dealership where I purchased it.  Brand new bike, bolts missing in the rear fender, no fuel--kind of disappointing.  I worked at a dealership, years ago, and I would have been fired if I had delivered a bike in that condition.  First impressions are very important.  A Speedisleeve, trade name, is for repairing worn shafts.  They work great.  Never heard of running chain too tight to cause seal leakage, only excessive chain and sprocket wear, but I can understand how it could flex things in a bad way.  Again, thanks for your input.  I will update when I have completed the replacement and test ridden.

dirtyharry30, I have a 2019 690 with 200 miles that just started leaking around the countershaft. Did you have any success in fixing your leak?

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I believe my Speedisleeve repair is working, although other have had success with just replacing the seal and o-ring.  Be very much aware that the original pasty chain lube gets thrown around and once it hits the hot engine cases may be giving the impression that the seal is weeping.  Please don't be too hasty in assuming its the seal.  Good luck.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2019 at 5:42 AM, brownd3 said:

dirtyharry30, I have a 2019 690 with 200 miles that just started leaking around the countershaft. Did you have any success in fixing your leak?

Older 690s used to leak from the countershaft for a couple of reasons....

When the owners switch to an aftermarket front sprocket, the aftermarket ones are thinner than the extra thick stock one. When you tighten up the nut on the stock front sprocket, it puts the correct amount of pressure on the seals behind it so there are no leaks. When you tighten up the thinner aftermarket ones, they can start to weep or leak, but this will stop leaking if you put a stock one back on...

Another cause is the front sprocket nut becoming loose. It won't come off due to the lock washer, but it can back off enough that the seal will start to weep when pressurized.

 

I suggest that you check the tension of your sprocket's locknut... 

 

 

 

Edited by Kwota
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I purchased a new 2019 690 Enduro R a couple weeks ago. It started leaking not 100 miles from the dealer.

They still have it...

Not a good first impression I will say that much. :(

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Finally got the bike back. I had to drive 450 miles to pick it up, and then rode about 550 back. It's not leaking so far, but I will keep an eye on it.

The service manager was not talkative and I couldn't carry a conversation with him. "It's broke, we fixed it, all you have to know" kind of attitude. The sheet says O ring, countershaft seal. They didn't charge me to fix the leak, but my first service, which was ONLY an oil change, was over $300. You think they would have taken a bit off being that I already drained it through the countershaft seal for them. ?

Worst dealer experience I've ever had by miles and miles. I don't want to name them as a fellow business owner but dang...

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Finally got the bike back. I had to drive 450 miles to pick it up, and then rode about 550 back. It's not leaking so far, but I will keep an eye on it.
The service manager was not talkative and I couldn't carry a conversation with him. "It's broke, we fixed it, all you have to know" kind of attitude. The sheet says O ring, countershaft seal. They didn't charge me to fix the leak, but my first service, which was ONLY an oil change, was over $300. You think they would have taken a bit off being that I already drained it through the countershaft seal for them.
Worst dealer experience I've ever had by miles and miles. I don't want to name them as a fellow business owner but dang...
Yeah i won't let the kdm shop hear touch my bike. My buddy took his new 690 for break in service and they left the main drain plug loose, he rode it home about 12 miles and it fell out someplace along the way, had almost none left in it when he got home. He was pissed but they were just like yeah refill it with oil and we'll make a note so if you have an early engine failure maybe we'll help you out. All casual and shit lol.

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2019 KTM 690 SMC R - I have near 180 miles and discovered an oil leak. Looks like the countershaft. I am trying to work it out with the dealer, but they are near two hours away from me. The bike is fun, but this isn't my first issue with it; my experience has been laborious. 

IMG_20190727_113852.jpg.1a857c7e2f45404d699eace070aa7e4b.jpgIMG_20190727_114616.jpg.c51960a8fe17e288d64c931c28b4e70c.jpgIMG_20190727_114355.thumb.jpg.27f4c844d1a3396a8a24644955a0a63a.jpgIMG_20190727_113901.jpg.9209f33988d74b6fae759374a95c6d55.jpg

IMG_20190727_113835.jpg

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Older 690s used to leak from the countershaft for a couple of reasons....

When the owners switch to an aftermarket front sprocket, the aftermarket ones are thinner than the extra thick stock one. When you tighten up the nut on the stock front sprocket, it puts the correct amount of pressure on the seals behind it so there are no leaks. When you tighten up the thinner aftermarket ones, they can start to weep or leak, but this will stop leaking if you put a stock one back on...

Another cause is the front sprocket nut becoming loose. It won't come off due to the lock washer, but it can back off enough that the seal will start to weep when pressurized.

 

I suggest that you check the tension of your sprocket's locknut... 

 

 

 

I had an 04 625 sxc dirt/sm setup and it leaked from the shifter forever. Replaced the seal at at the shifter and also deeper, never got it to stop. Your comment made me remember I upgraded both sprockets to fancy orange ones thinking I’m cool. Well turns out that was probably the culprit. If it was in fact thinner than the OEM front sprocket then I’m thinking I sold my baby for a mistake I was over looking🤨

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On 7/27/2019 at 1:32 PM, Tommy K said:

2019 KTM 690 SMC R - I have near 180 miles and discovered an oil leak. Looks like the countershaft. I am trying to work it out with the dealer, but they are near two hours away from me. The bike is fun, but this isn't my first issue with it; my experience has been laborious. 

IMG_20190727_113852.jpg.1a857c7e2f45404d699eace070aa7e4b.jpgIMG_20190727_114616.jpg.c51960a8fe17e288d64c931c28b4e70c.jpgIMG_20190727_114355.thumb.jpg.27f4c844d1a3396a8a24644955a0a63a.jpgIMG_20190727_113901.jpg.9209f33988d74b6fae759374a95c6d55.jpg

IMG_20190727_113835.jpg

Hey guys trying to gather as many people as possible having these same issues including myself. My 2019 KTM 690 SMC r started leaking from the right side since new from the oil Passage in the clutch cover. Repaired at dealership and then noticed countershaft seal leaking which I think was leaking since new also. Dealer installed new countershaft seal and is now leaking again. Please reach out and let me know who else is having this issue with their new KTM or Husqvarna.

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1 hour ago, Dan Babcock said:

Hey guys trying to gather as many people as possible having these same issues including myself. My 2019 KTM 690 SMC r started leaking from the right side since new from the oil Passage in the clutch cover. Repaired at dealership and then noticed countershaft seal leaking which I think was leaking since new also. Dealer installed new countershaft seal and is now leaking again. Please reach out and let me know who else is having this issue with their new KTM or Husqvarna.

I have an update on my post from several weeks ago...

Don’t be so hasty to replace your countershaft seal. It really could just be chain grease. I was convinced it was leaking, but it was just chain grease...

The dealer replaced the countershaft seal and it was still leaking. I took a look at the seal myself and tapped it in further because it was not flush with the case, but it still leaked. I decided to just ride it and ignore the leak. After 1500 miles it stopped leaking. Turns out it really was chain grease in my case. It sure looked like oil and didn’t get tacky again when it cooled. I put a new chain on the bike when I installed a larger sprocket. Guess what: looked like it was leaking again. Another 750 miles on the new chain and it stopped “leaking”.

My bike still has a leak at the clutch cover oil channel plug. I took the cover off and put thread sealant on the plug, but it’s still leaking. The leak has been slowing down the more miles I put on the bike. I suspect it’s getting slowly clogged by particles in the oil. I’m just going to live with this for now.

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1 hour ago, brownd3 said:

I have an update on my post from several weeks ago...

Don’t be so hasty to replace your countershaft seal. It really could just be chain grease. I was convinced it was leaking, but it was just chain grease...

The dealer replaced the countershaft seal and it was still leaking. I took a look at the seal myself and tapped it in further because it was not flush with the case, but it still leaked. I decided to just ride it and ignore the leak. After 1500 miles it stopped leaking. Turns out it really was chain grease in my case. It sure looked like oil and didn’t get tacky again when it cooled. I put a new chain on the bike when I installed a larger sprocket. Guess what: looked like it was leaking again. Another 750 miles on the new chain and it stopped “leaking”.

My bike still has a leak at the clutch cover oil channel plug. I took the cover off and put thread sealant on the plug, but it’s still leaking. The leak has been slowing down the more miles I put on the bike. I suspect it’s getting slowly clogged by particles in the oil. I’m just going to live with this for now.

Here are pics just after a ride of 100 miles with the bike being completely cleaned up after the first counter shaft seal failure. Sorry but this is not chain grease.

20190810_174445.jpg

20190810_174418.jpg

20190810_174355.jpg

20190810_174338.jpg

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On 7/27/2019 at 1:32 PM, Tommy K said:

2019 KTM 690 SMC R - I have near 180 miles and discovered an oil leak. Looks like the countershaft. I am trying to work it out with the dealer, but they are near two hours away from me. The bike is fun, but this isn't my first issue with it; my experience has been laborious. 

IMG_20190727_113852.jpg.1a857c7e2f45404d699eace070aa7e4b.jpgIMG_20190727_114616.jpg.c51960a8fe17e288d64c931c28b4e70c.jpgIMG_20190727_114355.thumb.jpg.27f4c844d1a3396a8a24644955a0a63a.jpgIMG_20190727_113901.jpg.9209f33988d74b6fae759374a95c6d55.jpg

IMG_20190727_113835.jpg

Hey Tommy looks like you are having the same issue I am. They have already replaced the counter shaft seal and it is now leaking again after less than 100 miles. Did you ever get yours fixed and what did you do? KTM is not giving me any answers. Here are some pics after counter shaft seal replacement

20190810_174445.jpg

20190810_174418.jpg

20190810_174355.jpg

20190810_174338.jpg

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1 hour ago, Dan Babcock said:

Hey Tommy looks like you are having the same issue I am. They have already replaced the counter shaft seal and it is now leaking again after less than 100 miles. Did you ever get yours fixed and what did you do? KTM is not giving me any answers. Here are some pics after counter shaft seal replacement

20190810_174445.jpg

20190810_174418.jpg

20190810_174355.jpg

20190810_174338.jpg

I have discussed the issue with the dealership. They told me that because it is a new bike, bolts will loosen and areas will need tightening. They also said that most of the problems for the life of the bike are within the break-in period. I never experienced these issues with any other bike. I haven't taken the bike back because of the distance. I tightened up the bolts to torque specs.

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2 hours ago, Tommy K said:

I have discussed the issue with the dealership. They told me that because it is a new bike, bolts will loosen and areas will need tightening. They also said that most of the problems for the life of the bike are within the break-in period. I never experienced these issues with any other bike. I haven't taken the bike back because of the distance. I tightened up the bolts to torque specs.

I just got off the phone with my dealership and they are coming to pick it up. Supposedly KTM wants to do several tests including another seal behind the counter shaft and also check for excessive crankcase pressure which is what I'm pointing towards because of all the leaks since new including the right side clutch cover and also pushing a bit of oil out of the filler cap. As soon as it's fixed it will be going up for sale and will be the last KTM I ever own. Besides I think next year they will start making them in China.... good luck KTM I hope you're reading this.

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On 8/12/2019 at 11:22 AM, Dan Babcock said:

Supposedly KTM wants to do several tests including another seal behind the counter shaft

Are you saying they want to try adding a seal on the inside of the case on the countershaft?  Checking the parts diagram shows the only seal anywhere on that shaft is the one on the outside of the case behind the sprocket.  My SMC R leaked from the countershaft seal from new as well, the same as others in this thread.  Just recently brought it in for the first service and the dealer replaced the seal at that time.  We'll see what happens.  Not worth stressing about.  As long as it is under warranty, give the dealer the opportunity to try and fix it.  If they can't do so after a few tries, that's what lemon laws are for.

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I'm on my 3rd trip back to the dealership and 2nd counter shaft seal replacement. KTM still doesn't know what's wrong with it. I told them if they can't fix it go ahead and keep it.

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