Can I run E-Start without factory wiring?

[xtactical]

I’m trying to convert my 09 250xcw back into e start but I am missing the digital display and the factory wiring harness. I’m not great with wiring diagrams and i’m not sure If I can simply purchase a start switch and battery/starter wiring and if that’s going to suffice or if i’m going to have to get the tackett harness and digital display? I don’t see why I’d need those other items unless the starter motor is wired in through the voltage regulator in some way...

[freeride250r]

On 4/17/2019 at 11:26 AM, xtactical said:

I’m trying to convert my 09 250xcw back into e start but I am missing the digital display and the factory wiring harness. I’m not great with wiring diagrams and i’m not sure If I can simply purchase a start switch and battery/starter wiring and if that’s going to suffice or if i’m going to have to get the tackett harness and digital display? I don’t see why I’d need those other items unless the starter motor is wired in through the voltage regulator in some way...

I don't see why not. I haven't done this myself, but I have a 2016 KTM Freeride 250r, and the e-starter wiring on that bike is quite simple.

 

You need the battery, the starter motor and the bendix gear and the idle gear, a voltage regulator to charge the battery, starter relay, and the starter button on your handlebar.

You do not need the speedometer/digital display to wire up a starter.

At a basic level, here's all that needs to be done (someone correct me if I'm wrong):

1. Battery hooked up to starter relay. This is a matter of hooking up 2 wires. One wire goes from the relay to the starter, and another is connected in a special way to allow the starter relay coil to stay energized while the e-start switch is held down.
2. Starter relay hooked up to starter motor.
3. Alternator battery charging winding (this is literally a wire that comes out of the alternator) hooked up to voltage regulator.
4. Voltage regulator hooked up to battery so that battery can be charged. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong)
5. e-start switch mounted on your bar and hooked up to starter relay so you can fire up the starter motor at will.

I don't know what the tackett harness is. The alternator stator probably still has its connectors, the voltage regulator if you have one, still has its connector.

 

This is definitely doable!

Edited April 23, 2019 by freeride250r

[xtactical]

I mean this all sounds right to me ?‍♂️ 

Im not sure what wires/wiring will need to go from the voltage regulator back to the battery though... or how to connect it to the regulator 

[freeride250r]

19 hours ago, xtactical said:

I mean this all sounds right to me ?‍♂️ 

Im not sure what wires/wiring will need to go from the voltage regulator back to the battery though... or how to connect it to the regulator 

 

Do you already have a voltage regulator mounted on your bike? I think the voltage regulator used on your bike is the same as on the KTM Freeride 250R. 

The voltage regulator has a 4 pin connector.

One of the pins is wired to the starter relay, which I believe feeds the charge to the positive terminal of the battery.

What parts do you already have mounted on the bike? Starter relay? Voltage regulator? Kill switch? e-starter switch?

[freeride250r]

The service manual should contain a wiring diagram. It may look daunting at first, but trust me it's not that hard once you have all the parts mounted on the bike. If you did not take out the wiring that ran between the various parts, it should be a cinch to re-install.

[dhdrider]

Factory wiring harness from RMATV isn’t that expensive if I recal,   Maybe $40?  Also relays can be found cheap on eBay.  I put e-start back on a bike I flipped a few years ago and found it to be much easier to use the OEM wiring for the most part.

[bikedude987]

The starter circuit is easy once you have a battery and charging system working.  Voltage regulator/rectifier, stator, etc are not even part of the starting equation, you just need them to charge the battery...

Battery supplies current to relay.  Relay closes circuit with starter motor lead.  Starter motor is grounded to the case, frame, and eventually, battery.  Handlebar mounted switch closes relay.  On an offroad bike, that's it!  

On a road bike, the push button and ecu are disabled by the ignition key, otherwise identical.

[xtactical]

On 4/23/2019 at 8:38 PM, freeride250r said:

 

Do you already have a voltage regulator mounted on your bike? I think the voltage regulator used on your bike is the same as on the KTM Freeride 250R. 

The voltage regulator has a 4 pin connector.

One of the pins is wired to the starter relay, which I believe feeds the charge to the positive terminal of the battery.

What parts do you already have mounted on the bike? Starter relay? Voltage regulator? Kill switch? e-starter switch?

So I believe I have a voltage regulator... is it the small square box with little heat sink fins that connects and next to the coil? 

I just got a couple parts in which are starter wires and relay and a new push button switch. The start button wire is only long enough to reach what I believe is the regulator, can I just extend this to the relay? Also there appears to be 4 cut wires coming off the regulator i’m assuming one or more is for going to the relay to charge the batt, the wiring diagrams I’ve seen for my bike is  inconsistent with come wires and colors i’m seeing which is why i’m confused..

Edited April 25, 2019 by xtactical

[bikedude987]

As I mentioned earlier, the starter circuit does not AT ALL interface with the charging circuit.  They are completely separate - one charges the battery, one pulls from the battery to spin an electric motor.

Sounds like you need a wiring diagram for your stator, reg/rec, and CDI (charging and ignition) and also, as a completely separate task, a wiring diagram for the e-start circuit.

Pics of what you're working with would help - if your bike was running before you have all the charging stuff already, probably minus the battery.  So you need to hook a battery back up, and run the electrical for the starter - which is just battery -> relay -> starter motor -> ground strap.  Switch on the handlebars triggers the relay.  about as easy as a circuit gets.

[redrider144]

On 4/17/2019 at 1:26 PM, xtactical said:

I’m trying to convert my 09 250xcw back into e start

I'm guessing you don't know anyone with that gen of bike, that would let you take the tank and seat off and take a bunch of pictures of the connectors, and wiring routes?

[xtactical]

36 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

I'm guessing you don't know anyone with that gen of bike, that would let you take the tank and seat off and take a bunch of pictures of the connectors, and wiring routes?

Ya that certainly would be helpful but i don’t. I’ll post some pics 

[xtactical]

2 hours ago, bikedude987 said:

As I mentioned earlier, the starter circuit does not AT ALL interface with the charging circuit.  They are completely separate - one charges the battery, one pulls from the battery to spin an electric motor.

Sounds like you need a wiring diagram for your stator, reg/rec, and CDI (charging and ignition) and also, as a completely separate task, a wiring diagram for the e-start circuit.

Pics of what you're working with would help - if your bike was running before you have all the charging stuff already, probably minus the battery.  So you need to hook a battery back up, and run the electrical for the starter - which is just battery -> relay -> starter motor -> ground strap.  Switch on the handlebars triggers the relay.  about as easy as a circuit gets.

I’m guessing that’s the voltage reg. On back side it has brown and yellow wires from the two pin connector one going to the stator wiring . It then has 4 cut wires of different colors. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by xtactical

[777654321]

On 4/22/2019 at 9:50 PM, xtactical said:

I mean this all sounds right to me ?‍♂️ 

Im not sure what wires/wiring will need to go from the voltage regulator back to the battery though... or how to connect it to the regulator 

YouTube it. 

[xtactical]

50 minutes ago, 777654321 said:

YouTube it. 

way to contribute to the convo ?

[777654321]

Just now, xtactical said:

way to contribute to the convo ?

Did it help. I find just about everything I need on YouTube. From leak down tests to shock rebuilds.

 

[freeride250r]

xtactical, please don't quote me on these connections ? I have the Freeride 250R and it uses the same voltage regulator as your '09 XC

In that 2nd picture in the post above, the black square thing with the fins is indeed the voltage regulator.

I believe it should have a brown, white, yellow, and white-red wire (white wire with red stripe) associated with it.

If my memory serves me correctly:

brown: ultimately connected to bike ground.

yellow: goes to power the various lights (at least on the 250 Freeride it does)

white: gets connected to the alternator

white-red: goes to the starter relay, which is connected to the battery. My guess is this is the lead that charges the battery. 

 

I hope this helps

 

 

Edited April 27, 2019 by freeride250r

[xtactical]

Ok so I think I figured out a wiring configuration that works, thanks for all the help guys. Except now I have a new problem. The brand new 410watt motor I’m using doesn’t even have enough power to turn the engine over with the plug removed, doesn’t even budge with it in. I thought it had to be a dead battery so I jumped it to my truck battery and it would turn over 2 or 3 revolutions (with no plug) and then stop.

Are the motors for this this crappy or should I send this one back for replacement? To be fair it’s a $50 ebay special but still would think it could turn a motor with zero compression over ???

[freeride250r]

21 minutes ago, xtactical said:

Ok so I think I figured out a wiring configuration that works, thanks for all the help guys. Except now I have a new problem. The brand new 410watt motor I’m using doesn’t even have enough power to turn the engine over with the plug removed, doesn’t even budge with it in. I thought it had to be a dead battery so I jumped it to my truck battery and it would turn over 2 or 3 revolutions (with no plug) and then stop.

Are the motors for this this crappy or should I send this one back for replacement? To be fair it’s a $50 ebay special but still would think it could turn a motor with zero compression over ???

I'd be curious about the grounding quality. Wonder what a multimeter would say the resistance is between the ground on the starter motor and the negative on the battery.

 

When you jumped it with your truck, where did you connect the negative terminal jumper coming from the truck to? The ground directly on the motor or the battery or the frame?

 

What brand is the motor?

[xtactical]

So I did upgrade the ground wire from battery just because, I think it’s a 4aug wire. When I jumped it i just connected the jumpers to the battery but assuming my larger ground wire is helping that shouldn’t be an issue. However as you mentioned the resistance of the frame itself is what could be an issue. I would think that it would be somewhat of a know issue if the frame were creating resistance/grounding problems but i’ll check it out tomorrow...

No brand on motor, since it’s ebay i’m assuming it something cheap from china 

Edited April 29, 2019 by xtactical

[mog]

Something must be binding , I've read about people using too long a bolt and it locks the starter