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717 closed for mud season????

By automagp68,
in Rocky Mountains

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raymo2.0

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That was a really good find on their web site I guess we should check every time we get ready to ride someplace.

Is it not posted at parking areas? Or posted on the way in? Most of my riding areas in the past have had signs saying when the opening and closing dates are, but I have noticed this year the gates are just closed and no Open or Closed dates posted.

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ColoradoJax

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2 hours ago, automagp68 said:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/psicc/recarea/?recid=80379

Your link is to "Rampart Range Recreation Area" yes?

Here's a link to "North Divide Trails" (717s, etc) - https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/psicc/recarea/?recid=28010

No closures stated there.  

Same with Rainbow Falls - https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/psicc/recreation/ohv/recarea/?recid=27704&actid=93

What am I missing?  :excuseme:

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automagp68

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Your link is to "Rampart Range Recreation Area" yes?

Here's a link to "North Divide Trails" (717s, etc) - https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/psicc/recarea/?recid=28010

No closures stated there.  

Same with Rainbow Falls - https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/psicc/recreation/ohv/recarea/?recid=27704&actid=93

What am I missing?  default_excuseme.gif&key=7c0b40b80bccd9050724cbc072fc4e72d05c0ca9afd2439cd6430f054ab1ad9d

 

True

But look at the map

 

They appear to consider divide as part of thy area

We heard rangers giving out tickets last week

 

Look at the link I posted. Divide is clearly inside the area map that is marked as closed

 

It makes no sense because there are no signs out at all

Rampart has big signs everywhere

 

The map I linked to shows it’s closed

 

Look at the map on the link you posted jack

Zoom way out on the map

The whole area is shaded in green as if it means closed

I am not sure that is what the green shading means but it sure looks to indicate closed

 

 

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ColoradoJax

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9 hours ago, automagp68 said:

Look at the map on the link you posted jack

Zoom way out on the map

The whole area is shaded in green as if it means closed

I am not sure that is what the green shading means but it sure looks to indicate closed

Pretty sure the map is just a "Map showing recreational areas." as it states.. and nothing more.  It's not a map of closures.  If you dig around more on the usda site you'll find a pdf showing ONLY RR trails are closed.  No other trail areas.  That's why everybody on this board has been riding Rainbow and 717 with no issues for months.

If anyone was getting tickets in 717 area... it probably wasn't just for "riding" there ?  My $0.02 

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dmac1

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There is no mention of it on the FS website, so I seriously doubt that it is closed. See below.

 

The mud closure listed is clearly Rampart only, which honestly, doesn't make alot of sense.  I mean, Rampart gets more use, but 717 has more stream crossings which get super muddy in early spring, which I avoid.

 

I'd say get someone to send you a pic of their ticket and/or ask em exactly which trail they were on. I have ZERO sympathy for them if they were riding Rampart when its clearly closed.

 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/psicc/alerts-notices

 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd611536.pdf

 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsinternet/cs/newsarchives?ss=110212&navtype=BROWSEBYSUBJECT&cid=FSE_003753&navid=120000000000000&pnavid=null&position=Closures&ttype=newsarchives&pname=Pike and San Isabel National Forests Cimarron and Comanche National Grasslands - Alerts amp; Notices

 

 

 

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Timmae

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I rode Rainbow Falls on Monday.  Several others there as well.   So unless they closed it yesterday it is "not closed".  Rampart is still closed as of Monday.  Why I don't know.  Rainbow was dry and great.

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Timmae

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All I know is there where no signs posted, gates closed or government types anywhere.  We rode all afternoon.  There where probably 10 or so other vehicles at the staging area with atv's, bikes and one SxS.

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dmac1

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Well that is not what the actually guy with a badge and gun told me   

 

 

 If I got a ticket, I'd look closely at the website info I posted earlier (3 links, trails and road names listed along with a map) and, assuming its not listed there and I didnt pass a 'closed' sign, that'd be the basis for my argument against them.

 

They cant implement a closure on the ground without informing the public. Well, not and have it be enforceable.

 

 

 

 

North Divide, aka 717 is dry as a bone. Other than a couple shady areas that still have some snow in them and some of the water crossings with user created go arounds it is all quite dry. In the 13+ years I have been going there it has never had "closures" like Rampart Range does. 

Agreed, never seen a closure, but that doesnt mean it cant change. 

The user created go rounds are likely gonna be the basis of a closure some day. Not good...I've seen it happen. At Rampart we have closures and bridges to keep wheels out of sensitive areas. AND, since the whole PSI except Rampart is currently the subject of a huge lawsuit, now isnt the time to be creating go rounds to avoid the mud. I'm not saying you created them..we as a group shouldnt.

 

NOTES -

 

1 -Longwater and Metberry are within the closure boundary. See the map I posted (2nd link) for exact southern boundaries.

 

2 - Rainbow Falls is not within the closure boundary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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SilvFx

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5 hours ago, dmac1 said:

 If I got a ticket, I'd look closely at the website info I posted earlier (3 links, trails and road names listed along with a map) and, assuming its not listed there and I didnt pass a 'closed' sign, that'd be the basis for my argument against them.

 

They cant implement a closure on the ground without informing the public. Well, not and have it be enforceable.

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed, never seen a closure, but that doesnt mean it cant change. 

The user created go rounds are likely gonna be the basis of a closure some day. Not good...I've seen it happen. At Rampart we have closures and bridges to keep wheels out of sensitive areas. AND, since the whole PSI except Rampart is currently the subject of a huge lawsuit, now isnt the time to be creating go rounds to avoid the mud. I'm not saying you created them..we as a group shouldnt.

 

NOTES -

 

1 -Longwater and Metberry are within the closure boundary. See the map I posted (2nd link) for exact southern boundaries.

 

2 - Rainbow Falls is not within the closure boundary.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree.  If you go to the links dmac1 provided and you go the the closure alerts it states the following:

Closures

........

Order 2019-02 South Platte Mud Season Closure

Date(s): Mar 1, 2019 - May 31, 2019

Pursuant to 16 United States Code (U.S.C.) § 551 and 36 Code of Federal Regulations (C.F.R.) § 261.50 (b), the following acts are prohibited on specified National Forest System roads and trails within the Pike National Forest in Colorado (the “Restricted Roads and Trails”). The Restricted Roads and Trails are shown on the attached map, hereby incorporated into this order as Exhibit A, and listed in Exhibit B.This order is necessary to provide short-term resource protection.

Order 2019-02

If you go to the map (e.g Exhibit A) it specifically shows on the map the closed trails and roads (pretty much all of Rampart).  Even though Metberry Gulch and Longwater Gulch are within the South Platte Ranger District (e.g. bold green line on map) those roads are NOT indicated on the map as closed.

So my conclusions:

  • Rampart Closed until May 31st or until order is lifted (not just Rampart Range Road).
  • Rainbow Falls  = open but when you get up north to trail 650 Long Hollow that connects to Rampart Range riding area...that is a no..no and cant be taken.
  • 717 = open
  • Gulches = open

If anyone should receive a ticket for riding in an area that is not shown as closed on their Exhibit B associated with the public closure notice will have a good case that they have been incorrectly ticketed.  The language and maps/exhibits of that closure order (Order# PSICC-2019-02) are pretty clear and not subject to interpretation.

Closure notice:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/alerts/psicc/alerts-notices

Actual Copy of Order with Exhibits/Maps:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/fseprd611536.pdf

 

 

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