2020 Xcf-w 500

[phatfos1]

Just saw they will release an off-road only xcf. This should solve all those vortex backorder issues? And probably cheaper. Swap in that Ecu and air boot pull the reeds and exhaust screen. Will ask dealer about Ecu price. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by phatfos1
Typo

[SteveThe Snakes]

3 hours ago, phatfos1 said:

Just saw they will release an off-road only xcf. This should solve all those vortex backorder issues? And probably cheaper. Swap in that Ecu and air boot pull the reeds and exhaust screen. Will ask dealer about Ecu price. 

Ah nope!

I rode a 17’ 250 mx bike yesterday. What a horrible running bike. I doubt they will do any better on a 2020. 

[phatfos1]

55 minutes ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

Ah nope!

I rode a 17’ 250 mx bike yesterday. What a horrible running bike. I doubt they will do any better on a 2020. 

How was it running horribly? This is an enduro bike not MX. 

[SteveThe Snakes]

1 hour ago, phatfos1 said:

How was it running horribly? This is an enduro bike not MX. 

Stalled on me three times and had a horrible lean surge from idle. If they can’t make a MX bike fuel right I don’t give much hope to a off road race bike. 

Edited July 1, 2019 by SteveThe Snakes

[phatfos1]

26 minutes ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

Stalled on me three times and had a horrible lean surge from idle. If they can’t make a MX bike fuel right I go give much hope to a off road race bike. 

Interesting and quite surprising. I have not ridden one of their offroad-only bikes from the modern era other than the 450 xc from 2019. That bike was a monster.

[sirthumpalot]

The older XCF and XCW bikes were known to run very good stock, so I doubt there will be any glaring issues with the newer versions.  The closed course bikes don't have to meet the same EPA standards as the street legal bikes.  I'm not clear on the green sticker requirements (no green sticker stuff in my state), but with the current administration I don't see those standards getting any stricter for 2020 than they have been in years past.  

[SteveThe Snakes]

21 minutes ago, sirthumpalot said:

The older XCF and XCW bikes were known to run very good stock, so I doubt there will be any glaring issues with the newer versions.  The closed course bikes don't have to meet the same EPA standards as the street legal bikes.  I'm not clear on the green sticker requirements (no green sticker stuff in my state), but with the current administration I don't see those standards getting any stricter for 2020 than they have been in years past.  

Um my understanding is there is Euro standards that are screwing up all the KTM fuel injected bikes from running properly. The 17’ I rode was a 250 KTM MX bike that was not street legal. We told him to sell it and buy a exc 350 with a Vortex. It stalled had a big lean spot, close ratio and small flywheel. Pretty useless in the mountains. Poor guy was really suffering riding that bike. I was surprised it didn’t run well. 

[sirthumpalot]

The euro standards would not affect the USA at all, the bikes get different programming depending on where they're being sold.  I don't think any MX bike, especially a small bore MX bike, would be well suited to riding off road in the mountains.  As you mentioned, they usually have very little flywheel, tall first gear and power delivery that isn't friendly for technical off-road riding.  

Side note; the euro programming has historically been richer than the USA programming.  Several years ago it was common to have USA EXC ECU's flashed with the Euro map because the map was richer and they would run better.  Now they won't do it for political reasons (threat of EPA action).  

Edited July 3, 2019 by sirthumpalot

[GOTWHEELS]

An off road bike has to meet standards that are close to road bikes. This is the reason KTM did away with off road bikes,

They had to jump though the same rule as the on road bikes.

The reason for stopping of Euro maps on US bike, It is illegal to alter smog equipment. The tuning of the ECU is altering

the smog equipment.

[Spud786]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 11:14 AM, phatfos1 said:

Just saw they will release an off-road only xcf. This should solve all those vortex backorder issues? And probably cheaper. Swap in that Ecu and air boot pull the reeds and exhaust screen. Will ask dealer about Ecu price. 

My thinking the offroad only , Ktm may bring back remapping option

[Airboss/oc]

5 hours ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

Um my understanding is there is Euro standards that are screwing up all the KTM fuel injected bikes from running properly. The 17’ I rode was a 250 KTM MX bike that was not street legal. We told him to sell it and buy a exc 350 with a Vortex. It stalled had a big lean spot, close ratio and small flywheel. Pretty useless in the mountains. Poor guy was really suffering riding that bike. I was surprised it didn’t run well. 

there lies the problem , you took a high revving MX bike trail riding , Doh ! it hasn't got any low end flywheel or grunt ! that bike runs best from 8,000-14,000 rpm

[SteveThe Snakes]

41 minutes ago, Airboss/oc said:

there lies the problem , you took a high revving MX bike trail riding , Doh ! it hasn't got any low end flywheel or grunt ! that bike runs best from 8,000-14,000 rpm

Well yup! But it should not have had a real bad lean surge and stalled for no reason. I can ride MX bikes. By the way it was not what I was riding. I only rode it because the poor guy got trapped everywhere trying to ride it. 

Edited July 3, 2019 by SteveThe Snakes

[sirthumpalot]

In that case it sounds like the bike had something wrong with it.  

[SteveThe Snakes]

1 hour ago, sirthumpalot said:

In that case it sounds like the bike had something wrong with it.  

250 4T MX bike in the mountains. Something wrong with that right there. 

Bike was almost new. 

[turn_one]

I’ve had and have both (XCF-Ws and XC-Fs) and ride regularly in the mountains. Thinking that a 250 in and XC-F platform cannot handle the mountains is untrue. I get smoked by a dude on one often when I’m my 450 ZC-F

That said the ECU tune(s) found in XC-Fs are horrible as SteveSnakes said. As the above poster mentioned, they stall and flameout regularly. Stock, my 18 450 XC-F was almost unrideable as a woods/mountain bike. Not until a Blais tuned ECU did it get better. 

My 16 XCF-W was waaay better stock. I did have a Euro map loaded but KTM put the kibosh on that a long time ago...and that bike was not sold as a street bike so obviously there’s some rules governing what dealerships and tuners can do stateside. 

Even America, which has its own emissions laws and limits, are affected because bike firms design their machines with the EU standards in mind and then modify them, where necessary, to suit the US rules.

Curious how these new Ws will run out of the box. 

[Eldon]

.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Eldon

[N.dica]

On 7/3/2019 at 9:11 PM, turn_one said:

I’ve had and have both (XCF-Ws and XC-Fs) and ride regularly in the mountains. Thinking that a 250 in and XC-F platform cannot handle the mountains is untrue. I get smoked by a dude on one often when I’m my 450 ZC-F

That said the ECU tune(s) found in XC-Fs are horrible as SteveSnakes said. As the above poster mentioned, they stall and flameout regularly. Stock, my 18 450 XC-F was almost unrideable as a woods/mountain bike. Not until a Blais tuned ECU did it get better. 

My 16 XCF-W was waaay better stock. I did have a Euro map loaded but KTM put the kibosh on that a long time ago...and that bike was not sold as a street bike so obviously there’s some rules governing what dealerships and tuners can do stateside. 

Even America, which has its own emissions laws and limits, are affected because bike firms design their machines with the EU standards in mind and then modify them, where necessary, to suit the US rules.

Curious how these new Ws will run out of the box. 

So I got a 2019 250 XCF as a smaller bore bike for the girlfriend and nephew.  Obviously, Ill be riding the sh*t out of it more than either of them.  Its jumpy as hell at low speed, and stalling is an obvious problem.  Once its moving it absolutely rips, though.  I threw on a G2 throttle cam (400 size) and am ordering an 8-12 oz flywheel weight for it.  Might also have to swap a sprocket for something slightly mellower.  

The thing is, I knew this going in and I didnt want an EXC due to all the EPA neutering both in the ECU and with the emissions garbage junking up the bike. I knew Id have to do some mods to make it singletrack and technical-friendly.  No big deal... It isnt an SX. So when they guy above complains about an "MX" bike, Im curious which model he's referring to.  Maybe I missed it - my bad. 

I fully intend on tuning this for a 4t singletrack toy.  If the listed mods dont get me there, Ill pony up for a Vortex or a Rekluse.  Might cost more money if I have to go that far, but all these mods should make it ride like Tracy Lords. No worries. 

[masterblaster]

Got the 2020 500 EXC F wondering if they will come out with a map switch.

[SteveThe Snakes]

13 minutes ago, masterblaster said:

Got the 2020 500 EXC F wondering if they will come out with a map switch.

Sure as soon as you buy a Vortex. 

[masterblaster]

ha, no map switch then.