Why are top hard enduro riders like Graham Jarvis on two-strokes?

[Edgecombe]

25 minutes ago, vetten76 said:

Really. I didn’t know European bikes were different or that modern. No wonder the Husky I was looking at was over 12k. The last two stroke I owned was a 93 CR. Guess I need to read about the latest. I’ve had to switch to street riding due to too many injuries. It would be fun to run a peeky two stroke on the street again. 

Dirt is softer than pavement,  trust me.

[Edgecombe]

13 minutes ago, vetten76 said:

This is so funny for me. I rode two strokes for over 30 years. I was forced to switch to 4 strokes for the rest of my riding days because they had become obsolete or was supposed to be discontinued. I went kicking and screaming. Then I bought and fell in love with my CRF450.  I had my son on an 02 CR250. I loved my old 500’s in Glamis until I rode my 450. It was perfect there. Trail riding on the 450 was outstanding. I weigh 210 pounds. Big bores have always worked for me. God I really miss dirt riding. I timed out. 

My beta 300re is the first 2 stroke I've ever had. I've only ever been on 4 strokes, so it was a shock and surprise when I finally rode one. I was a die hard Honda xr guy for ever and if Honda wasn't stupid and discontinue them , I would probably still have one. I would always say I'd never have a 2 stroke,but just riding one was an eye opener for sure. 

[vetten76]

53 minutes ago, 69fastback said:

You need to find a new place to look. My '20 TE300i was nowhere near $12K OTD.

 

And I can tell you that if you haven't ridden one, you probably just don't understand and I don't mean that to be condescending. It's just the truth. The modern 2 strokes are far less work to ride that a 4T and that's why they're so popular. They are just super easy to ride in the tight technical terrain. A 4 stroke really just can't compete and I weigh 220 with no gear. That 300 doesn't even struggle to drag my fat ass anywhere and these bikes aren't peaky. Linear with power with tons of power off idle. 

I believe you. They were a little raw when I owned them. I wish I could ride one! That Husky was at my local Ducati dealer. Everything is expensive there. The bike I looked at was a street legal 450. Bitchen bike! 

[Beta300REcat]

7 hours ago, Edgecombe said:

Now 2 strokes

My first bike was a CR125 and after that was the RM250. Not being able to ride any closed gravel pit or open vacant lot is why I bought the DRZ when I had the $$ to get back into dirt riding. The ability to plate the Beta is awesome. Back in 2005 when I bought the DRZS, you could not plate a DRZE. Didn't have the $$$$ for a KTM, or I would have bought a 2t in 2005.

As has been said time and time again, if 4t's were the sniz, they would ride them in Erzberg.

[Beta300REcat]

8 hours ago, FastNLoose said:

1989 YZ490

Yamaha advertises wet weight. ?

[Beta300REcat]

On 7/11/2019 at 4:11 PM, ken petty said:

Haha you said penetrating!

 

[Armbarn sailor]

4 strokes are top heavy and the engines really do a number on the chassis when you let off the gas or have it revving hard. I bought into it for awhile and after a few 4 strokes i can say the ONLY things a 4 stroke can do better are :
1- seat bounce doubles right out of a tight corner
2- clay hardpack

[BushPig]

3 hours ago, hondaman331 said:

4 strokes are top heavy and the engines really do a number on the chassis when you let off the gas or have it revving hard. I bought into it for awhile and after a few 4 strokes i can say the ONLY things a 4 stroke can do better are :
1- seat bounce doubles right out of a tight corner
2- clay hardpack

I think 250fs are pretty nice for cornering,  no?

Brake in, dial in the peefectly linear throttle and wash rinse repeat.

[Oil Baron]

I just watched highlights from the Erzberg hard Enduro on the Red Bull channel.  Only 23 superhuman riders finished the race within the four hour time limit.  Hundreds of other riders did not finish, mostly on two strokes, piles of them, not making the hill climbs.  

[Beta300REcat]

1 hour ago, Baja Rambler said:

Hundreds of other riders did not finish, mostly on two strokes, piles of them, not making the hill climbs.  

Yes, hills at the angle of repose are difficult to climb. 

You're not trying to argue that a heavier 4t would be more successful, are you? 

[Oil Baron]

3 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Yes, hills at the angle of repose are difficult to climb. 

You're not trying to argue that a heavier 4t would be more successful, are you? 

Would that be considered blasphemous?

Its not so much the angle.  It’s the big hole, turn, or rut half way up. 

[Beta300REcat]

21 minutes ago, Baja Rambler said:

Would that be considered blasphemous?

Doesn't matter if it was, I was just curious to know what your feelings were and why. 

[RichieGoatGruff]

2 hours ago, Baja Rambler said:

I just watched highlights from the Erzberg hard Enduro on the Red Bull channel.  Only 23 superhuman riders finished the race within the four hour time limit.  Hundreds of other riders did not finish, mostly on two strokes, piles of them, not making the hill climbs.  

How many of those 23 were on 4t?

[Oil Baron]

All I’m saying, is just because the top expert riders can win hard enduro on those 300 2T bikes, it doesn’t mean those bikes are going to make the amateur a better rider, or be the best bike for them.  Those bikes are optimized for pro riders.  Like when Scott Summers used to win the Baja 1000 on a big heavy XR650R, it never meant the lesser rider was competitive on that bike. (B1K is not comparable to hard enduro, of course.)

[2strokenut]

1 hour ago, Baja Rambler said:

All I’m saying, is just because the top expert riders can win hard enduro on those 300 2T bikes, it doesn’t mean those bikes are going to make the amateur a better rider, or be the best bike for them.  Those bikes are optimized for pro riders.  Like when Scott Summers used to win the Baja 1000 on a big heavy XR650R, it never meant the lesser rider was competitive on that bike. (B1K is not comparable to hard enduro, of course.)

Look man, go watch Erzberg. There are thousands of riders out there and 99.9% of them including, amateurs are still on 2ts. Your argument doesn't make any sense. 

 

It's the opposite of what you think. Bring a 2t to a moto track and you'll get made fun of, take a 4t to a hard enduro and people feel sorry for you.

[Beta300REcat]

4 hours ago, RichBaker said:

How many of those 23 were on 4t?

?

[Beta300REcat]

3 hours ago, Baja Rambler said:

All I’m saying, is just because the top expert riders can win hard enduro on those 300 2T bikes, it doesn’t mean those bikes are going to make the amateur a better rider, or be the best bike for them.

I clear obstacles on the Beta that I couldn't port the DRZ through. I port the Beta through obstacles it would take two people to port the DRZ through.

The low end torque of a 2t is indispensable in the tight gnar. 4t just doesn't have the low end, plus they weigh more.

YMMV

[Beta300REcat]

4 hours ago, Baja Rambler said:

Its not so much the angle.

Oh, ok................................. ?

[Oil Baron]

I’ve ridden several thousand miles in Baja and don’t recall ever seeing a two-stroke there other than local kids riding some old beater 2T around some of the little villages.  My buddy had one of them come on one of the rides and it kept running out of gas.  They had to send a truck to pickup gas for it.  

[Beta300REcat]

7 minutes ago, Baja Rambler said:

I’ve ridden several thousand miles in Baja

Baja isn't Erzberg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erzberg_mine

It's not Megawatt either.

 

Again, LOTS of hillclimbs at the angle of repose.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angle_of_repose