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firffighter

GasGas Ranger review: X Trainer threat?

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Posted (edited)
On 7/9/2019 at 7:05 PM, firffighter said:

Every manufacturer has idiosyncrasies that have to be addressed, Beta no exception. 

I would buy a GasGas based on my local dealer support which is actually stronger than my local Beta dealer support. I have 2 local GasGas dealers that are owned by guys that have the most solid reputations in the NW. 

Again, GasGas having a solid bike only adds to us, the consumer! Better choices for the only benefits the market.

In admiration I read your, still friendly, answers to a bunch of GG haters. Never seen someone being that cool arguing with keyboard warriors like HDR. I had given up after the first page of this thread, honestly.

On 7/10/2019 at 1:59 PM, MixinGasKickinAss said:

No one cares about the estart issue. It was an issue at one point and then it was addressed by the company. It works flawlessly along with the Kickstarter that starts the bike every single time in one kick.  Is betas design better? Absolutely. But We’re talking about a starter here so you’re grasping at straws if using that as a comparison between the two bikes.  You say that all GG riders are disappointed with the starter and hoping for a better one but then you say only 2 or 3 are in Hawaii and you’ve never actually seen one.  Don’t make shit up.  

Also the ergonomics of the GG and RR are completely different, which comes down to personal preference. So just because a lowered RR is lower than a ranger is also a poor argument.  There are some full sized adults in this world that might prefer the ergonomics of the GG but want a shorter seat height. 

Not everyone knows the truth about the e-start. With stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain, is the answer to statements like "KTM like starter design". The design of the GG starter is totally different. I had a 2018GP which I sold to a friend and I have a 2019 EC and another 2018 GP in my garage. On the 2019 I haven't used the kicker a single time, the starter works flawless since 65 hours. On the GP's, I admit, that I tried a few things (thicker cables, additional earth wire,...) which did not work. So I just changed the procedure, first start with cold engine used the kicker, after that no problem it would just start fine on the button. As MixingGasKickingAss mentioned, the culprit is the little starter cover, but we just leave it like it is, to kick it once ion the morning is only necessary when temps are below 78F.

On 7/10/2019 at 6:53 PM, firffighter said:

I owned 4 KTM's with this TYPE of starter including both the smaller initial starter in my '09. 

KTM upgraded the motor with stronger magnets and improved armature for more output (410W vs 350W). The end result is the engine spins much faster and starts easier. There were no problems with these starters performance. 

GasGas has a similar starter as the upgraded 410W KTM version and no performance issues other than initial released '18 models that GasGas addressed early with customers, fixed their issues at no cost under warranty and immediately fixed the issue at the factory. 

It may sound pretentious but I had about ten. The system has a design flaw and that is why it didn't work well, but I maintained mine and only had trouble twice. KTM's old starter system needs a bit of attention every 30 to 50 hours depending on how much one uses the button. Then, after I had a 2017 and a 2018 with the new designed starter design I thought that was a very positive upgrade. When I had to replace the starter on a friends 2017 I immediately learned that KTM's technicians never thought that one may take the starter out while the engine sits in the frame. As long as it works, its perfect, once it fails and you need to service it, congrats and have fun cause you will fiddle around with it for hours...

After I had my TPI 43 days and it has done 8 hours the oil tank cracked. KTM refused to repair it under warranty. I did not even pick the bike up. I just turned and went away and I will never ever buy one. The way my fellow countrymen treat their customers is definitely mind-boggling.

22 hours ago, MixinGasKickinAss said:

And when those starter problems arised, the company took action to fix it. 

At least they tried to help us, something what other companies -I am not talking about Beta- don't do. However, the problem was a bit unnerving but at least it can be fixed. I was very angry about GG myself but well, they showed that they do care.

I like Betas and I would like to have a 300RR as I think its a brilliant bike too and the Beta people unlike the KTM boyz do care about their customers. The battle going on here is somewhat childish and I think its good when the XTrainer, which I like, get's a bit of competition. GG is in trouble, that is a fact, but unless all the haters here I really hope they can get out of the trouble soon now that they get rid of the needless e-bikes. We need much more small makes competing against the orange(white armada.

Edited by Doc Brown
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2 hours ago, firffighter said:

Sorry HDR, you've done it yet again, taken a salient, reasonable line of thought and driven it right off the rails. 

I suppose it was just a matter of time before you did this to me like you've done so many times before, to so many others. 

It was silly of me to think that you could refrain from your tactics on a thread that mentions another manufacturer without you feeling threatened and immediately deflecting and mucking it up.

Like so many other have done, I'm going to go with the feature here provided by our friendly TT staff! 

 

You show us a vid of a Gasgas Model no one has even seen. You tell us it’s better than an Xtrainer that  many here have ridden for years. We know an Xtrainer. No one knows a bike that no one has seen. So you’re pissed when I and others just post what we do know of Gasgas as a company and other of their models that are already out. Barry isn’t a god or guru. He has made great vids and I have liked his opinions and love his vids. I am a supporter of his donating money every once in a while so he can continue making more. It is also retarded for me to honestly assess any bike good or bad strictly on a bike no one has ridden and isn’t even available for anyone to buy. I don’t even make any true assessment of any bike. I don’t bull shit. I never rode a Freeride but I have friends that ride them and I put forward truth in their assessment in what the like and don’t like. Some of my friends love a Freeride and I will forward their approval. What you have done here is first if all weird. .. but no one has any real clue on how this bike really works. It should be good. Barry says so in a vid. Honestly that is only one tiny element of my picking out how good or bad something is. It’s weird that I or anyone has to tell you this. You know how I know I like my Betas and other Betas?? I have ridden them. You know how I know about other brands like KTM and Honda and Yamaha? I ride them.. duh. I and others here are only giving honest opinions based on what we know. That’s all. Your reactions are your responsibility. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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41 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

In admiration I read your, still friendly, answers to a bunch of GG haters. Never seen someone being that cool arguing with keyboard warriors like HDR. I had given up after the first page of this thread, honestly

Thanks! I appreciate guys like yourself who are able to have a rational discussion! 

There's so many great bikes out there and there's no reason we cannot have good solid discussion without it getting so crazy.

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59 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

In admiration I read your, still friendly, answers to a bunch of GG haters. Never seen someone being that cool arguing with keyboard warriors like HDR. I had given up after the first page of this thread, honestly.

Not everyone knows the truth about the e-start. With stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain, is the answer to statements like "KTM like starter design". The design of the GG starter is totally different. I had a 2018GP which I sold to a friend and I have a 2019 EC and another 2018 GP in my garage. On the 2019 I haven't used the kicker a single time, the starter works flawless since 65 hours. On the GP's, I admit, that I tried a few things (thicker cables, additional earth wire,...) which did not work. So I just changed the procedure, first start with cold engine used the kicker, after that no problem it would just start fine on the button. As MixingGasKickingAss mentioned, the culprit is the little starter cover, but we just leave it like it is, to kick it once ion the morning is only necessary when temps are below 78F.

It may sound pretentious but I had about ten. The system has a design flaw and that is why it didn't work well, but I maintained mine and only had trouble twice. KTM's old starter system needs a bit of attention every 30 to 50 hours depending on how much one uses the button. Then, after I had a 2017 and a 2018 with the new designed starter design I thought that was a very positive upgrade. When I had to replace the starter on a friends 2017 I immediately learned that KTM's technicians never thought that one may take the starter out while the engine sits in the frame. As long as it works, its perfect, once it fails and you need to service it, congrats and have fun cause you will fiddle around with it for hours...

After I had my TPI 43 days and it has done 8 hours the oil tank cracked. KTM refused to repair it under warranty. I did not even pick the bike up. I just turned and went away and I will never ever buy one. The way my fellow countrymen treat their customers is definitely mind-boggling.

At least they tried to help us, something what other companies -I am not talking about Beta- don't do. However, the problem was a bit unnerving but at least it can be fixed. I was very angry about GG myself but well, they showed that they do care.

I like Betas and I would like to have a 300RR as I think its a brilliant bike too and the Beta people unlike the KTM boyz do care about their customers. The battle going on here is somewhat childish and I think its good when the XTrainer, which I like, get's a bit of competition. GG is in trouble, that is a fact, but unless all the haters here I really hope they can get out of the trouble soon now that they get rid of the needless e-bikes. We need much more small makes competing against the orange(white armada.

No Beta riders have to go through a “ procedure “ to start their bikes. We just press the starter buttons like all other current models of estart 2 stroke and 4 stroke enduro estart bikes except Gasgas No one here is a “Hater”. It’s just giving our honest opinions that you actually verify of the company and the bikes. So from what you say the estarter isn’t as good as every other brand currently by your description. The company is having some problems. So guess what. I said the same thing. It’s just the simple truth based on what information is available and personal experience. So we are “Haters “ because I and others are honest??? It is what it is then we make our choices based on reality. Reality is comparing a bike we can ride and Gasgas is having financial problems. We can’t ride a Ranger so we can’t compare it to anything. 

I put it to you as well. Go make the same comparative threads just like this one in every other manufacturer thread here in TT and see how it comes off.  

Think of this Doc. Think that you don’t have to do a certain procedure to start your bike if you have an Xtrainer or any other Beta to start. Think also that Beta owners are secure in the fact that Beta is solid and secure and stable as an over 100 year old company. The bikes are proven for regular riders and still are winning championships for the pros. The company cares about their customers better than any company I know and I personally have gotten great service and support for 10 years now for 4 Betas I’ve owned. I have ridden and raced dirt for 52 years riding and racing a wide variety of bikes. Beta has proven to be the best all around company in real experience. Now a guy brings a vid of a bike no one has ridden before and no one has seen and expects that we all are going to just automatically praise this imaginary thing? Come on.. that’s &%$#@!ing retarded. When the Ranger comes out everyone can ride it and make their own decisions... not this bullshit make believe shit. 

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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39 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

No Beta riders have to go through a “ procedure “ to start their bikes. We just press the starter buttons like all other current models of estart 2 stroke and 4 stroke enduro estart bikes except Gasgas No one here is a “Hater”. It’s just giving our honest opinions that you actually verify of the company and the bikes. So from what you say the estarter isn’t as good as every other brand currently by your description. The company is having some problems. So guess what. I said the same thing. It’s just the simple truth based on what information is available and personal experience. So we are “Haters “ because I and others are honest??? It is what it is then we make our choices based on reality. Reality is comparing a bike we can ride and Gasgas is having financial problems. We can’t ride a Ranger so we can’t compare it to anything. 

I put it to you as well. Go make the same comparative threads just like this one in every other manufacturer thread here in TT and see how it comes off.  

Think of this Doc. Think that you don’t have to do a certain procedure to start your bike if you have an Xtrainer or any other Beta to start. Think also that Beta owners are secure in the fact that Beta is solid and secure and stable as an over 100 year old company. The bikes are proven for regular riders and still are winning championships for the pros. The company cares about their customers better than any company I know and I personally have gotten great service and support for 10 years now for 4 Betas I’ve owned. I have ridden and raced dirt for 52 years riding and racing a wide variety of bikes. Beta has proven to be the best all around company in real experience. Now a guy brings a vid of a bike no one has ridden before and no one has seen and expects that we all are going to just automatically praise this imaginary thing? Come on.. that’s &%$#@!ing retarded. When the Ranger comes out everyone can ride it and make their own decisions... not this bullshit make believe shit. 

 

I am -thank god- not like you hence I am not listing the problems different Beta's have. It would not make sense anyway. Whoever would say he's not a hater i'd probably trust. I don't trust or believe you as you are known as a person enjoying to bring up painful subjects. In so many threads I have read your comments and your tit for tat mentality is really more than obvious. And please, stop telling us that you are a honest guy. 

Concerning the starter of the GG, just re-read what I have posted, you probably will understand that the starter of my 19 works flawless, so I won't further discuss that. As I wouldnot discuss Beta main bearings, plastics, forks and stuff. We all know the truth so there's no need to stir up old stories.

Unfortunately I am not a native speaker so my answers may be a bit blunt as I do not know the subtleties of your language, so please forgive me for being too direct. I really don't feel like commenting every single sentence of your post, but it seems you completely misinterprete what is and was going on. The video, in my opinion wasn't posted to start a fight Beta vs GG. I think any other Beta rider would just shrug and give a shit. But you are like a dog that hunts a bone. Gives you the opporotunity for some endless posts.

I can ride a Ranger whenever I want, my dealer has it and has offered me to test it. So I don't get what you are talking about. Or you just can't stand that Barry, who is a real Beta lover, made positive comments about it. No one asked to praise the Ranger, but I of course don't know what your personal problem is that in every post that doesn't fit in your acceptance window you see a personal attack. Firffighter explained it for you very clearly, but like in the thread that has been closed, the one where you got a warning your answers just show how ignorant you are.

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2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

I am -thank god- not like you hence I am not listing the problems different Beta's have. It would not make sense anyway. Whoever would say he's not a hater i'd probably trust. I don't trust or believe you as you are known as a person enjoying to bring up painful subjects. In so many threads I have read your comments and your tit for tat mentality is really more than obvious. And please, stop telling us that you are a honest guy. 

Concerning the starter of the GG, just re-read what I have posted, you probably will understand that the starter of my 19 works flawless, so I won't further discuss that. As I wouldnot discuss Beta main bearings, plastics, forks and stuff. We all know the truth so there's no need to stir up old stories.

Unfortunately I am not a native speaker so my answers may be a bit blunt as I do not know the subtleties of your language, so please forgive me for being too direct. I really don't feel like commenting every single sentence of your post, but it seems you completely misinterprete what is and was going on. The video, in my opinion wasn't posted to start a fight Beta vs GG. I think any other Beta rider would just shrug and give a shit. But you are like a dog that hunts a bone. Gives you the opporotunity for some endless posts.

I can ride a Ranger whenever I want, my dealer has it and has offered me to test it. So I don't get what you are talking about. Or you just can't stand that Barry, who is a real Beta lover, made positive comments about it. No one asked to praise the Ranger, but I of course don't know what your personal problem is that in every post that doesn't fit in your acceptance window you see a personal attack. Firffighter explained it for you very clearly, but like in the thread that has been closed, the one where you got a warning your answers just show how ignorant you are.

All the Beta pro and cons are evident. Just read Beta threads. We all ride Betas here mostly..I think Beta riders are super critical and just being in Beta threads will show all of whatever flaws and potential flaws Betas have. We ride them and assess them constantly and look for ways to improve them. It’s what we ride so we obviously mod to improve.  It’s a real thing. No one even has a Ranger here to see or ride. It’s stupid to compare to that which is nothing. You may not like what I say but it doesn’t matter because it’s the truth. You verified it in your post.  So if you think this thread is just fine and I screwed it up? Go make this thread in every other manufacturer threads. I won’t post. See what others say comparing a bike no one has ridden to well known models guys have ridden for years. I say you’re full of shit if you don’t do that. Go ahead. Got Yamaha, Husky, KTM, Sherco, TM etc.. You and Firefightr start some threads and have nice conversations. See what they say. :thumbsup:

Here’s another thing. Anyone and everyone can and do read in the Gasgas threads and gasgasriders. Where do you think whatever information about Gasgas comes from? It’s from posts there and Gasgas and enduro21 and a wide variety of sources. I make nothing up. It’s sources that you are totally familiar with too. Don’t play dumb. Everything Ive posted you know about or have access to know about. You are on the same Gasgas threads! Gasgas situation and the status of their bikes are there for all to read. The Ranger though is not released yet. You don’t even know how it runs because you haven’t ridden one either. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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I have zero knowledge of the quality of the current GG starter but after reading of a couple KTM guys ordeal in working on the new starter the external mounted GG unit kinda looks good.  If the current good reports continue I don't see any reason to make that an issue.

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10 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Hmm lots of talking around here. I just stopped by to mention that Gas Gas Ranger took the approach that Beta could have also by modifying the RR model with more torque and lowered suspension. They got a good result by doing it as would be expected if you did the same to an RR. 

Actually if just ignoring the histrionics and just reading on what little info available since no Rangers are even in this country and no one has ridden them , there is a little info learned. One can go read the Ranger info in TT gasgas threads and gasgasriders too. One interesting bit of info is that the 300 rr and the Ranger are the same seat height. Try checking the weight different as well. We got nothing but specs and a vid or 2 that yet have to be verified by just getting guys to ride them. That’s a waiting game till later. So basically we don’t know until Rangers are sold in USA. 

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Here’s some Beta stats. I put up Gasgas stats earlier. Just not in pic form . 

Might be a little out of order but it’s just the Xtrainer and the rr current stats. Check out the numbers. 

 

BB3F80C2-7E32-4DC7-8CF4-D6E66D0E387F.png

2C20F09F-8276-44E7-BE2B-67151D359C38.png

8579CAE7-96D3-4B0E-8DE9-EF77560C7490.png

 

DE6D5AD3-55CE-46D8-B0A1-2EAEA490C35F.png

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Order a clutch cover for both and see which one comes in first.  

Doc

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26 minutes ago, Doc_d said:

Order a clutch cover for both and see which one comes in first.  

Doc

:smirk:  yea actually that’s one good one.. Beta has been super fast getting parts through my dealer. It’s faster than my Honda parts came. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Wheelbase of Ranger...

Hmm.. Xtrainer 57.8”    Beta 300 rr  58.3”  about the same and the Xtrainer has a lower seat height (35.8”) and the 300 rr has the same seat height as the Ranger. 

2FC3A8CA-7593-41DF-9EEF-1DE9243563FD.png

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Well there aint shit anyone can compare other than what’s up for now. 

So it’s just wait for the new Gasgas like we are waiting to see the new 2020 Beta. 

I know one thing... The starter is going to be better :lol: .

Now with just looking at basic numbers it’s actually looking like the 300 rr matches better. Same seat height.. almost the same wheelbase.. the weight? Gotta check again but it might even be that the rr is a little lighter too.  .. and the Ranger is about an inch and a half to 2” shorter than the EC. The Xtrainer is lighter and lower and a tiny bit shorter..

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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