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stimpy77

Clutch replacement - lifter arm isn't lifting anything

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Hi guys,

So I've followed this video best I could (see below), removing the judder spring rings and all plates, restoring new plates with steel plates between them, and now my issue is that the lifter arm has no resistance. I did lose the lifter arm spring but I found it and reinstalled it; it returns, but there's still no resistance. Meaning, the lifter arm isn't lifting anything! Isn't it supposed to be pulling the clutch cover away from plates? Any ideas? 

The clutch plates I'm using are from here: https://www.crfsonly.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/5894

I've got I assume five identical friction plates, and a non-friction plate (salvaged from previous clutch plates) between them, so 5 friction plates and 4 non-friction plates. Is that right?

Am I missing something here? 

EDIT: There is about a quarter inch of slack in the lifter pin. Is that about right?

 

Edited by stimpy77

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You have the correct number of plates,

As you push the right hand engine case on , you have to position the arm  so it hooks on the clutch lifter pin that sticks out in the middle of the clutch.

Edited by Garth Knight
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Thx. When I put the engine case on, I do position the arm so that the rod will insert into the arm, as that's the only way to get the engine case to close and fully seal the gasket. But am I supposed to be twisting the arm to an extremity or something to get the rod to actually *hook*? I didn't do any hooking, I assumed it would naturally hook and lift and unhook as you push the arm in and pull it back.

Edited by stimpy77

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If the clutch arm is not positioned correctly it normally holds the side case away from the engine. 

Just an idea, with the clutch assembled can you move the friction plates with your fingers?

There shouldn't be any movement they should be clamped by the springs.

Edited by Garth Knight

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3 minutes ago, Garth Knight said:

If the clutch arm is not positioned correctly it normally holds the side case away from the engine. 

Just an idea, with the clutch assembled can you move the friction plates with your fingers?

There shouldn't be any movement they should be clamped by the springs.

If the clutch arm is not positioned correctly it normally holds the side case away from the engine.

Meaning the side case won't close/seal, right? It's sealed.

Just an idea, with the clutch assembled can you move the friction plates with your fingers?

No. As mentioned there's a quarter inch or so of slack in the rod, but that's the only movement my fingers can much do.

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Only things I can think to help are, compare the angle of your arm with photos of a stock bike. Also you can watch the arm locate on the clutch by looking down the gap on the top of the case as you fit it. You have to have the arm angled further back to start and rotate clockwise from the top as you engage it.

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It's with the mechanic now. I'll post here when I learn what was wrong.

Current suspicion is that slack is NOT right, and I actually broke or bent something. My initial install when I started I forgot to double up the friction plates with the steel plates, I just put the friction plates in, so the lifter was lifting far too much I guess, and I ran the engine that way with the clutch cable intact for a few seconds. That was incredibly dense, and I'm sorry for not mentioning that, didn't mean to waste anyone's time. Otherwise if there was no consequence I hope they just find my error and adjust accordingly and let me know what it was.

Edited by stimpy77

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Hi
I have same problem. I followed same instructions . Put all plates 4+5 in but when putting back sidecover there is minimal resistance when turning. There is installed EBC set with +15% stronger springs.
There is free movement clutch "axle" which will connected to lever system, normal? How basket cover should move?

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Latest news from the mechanic .. 

As far as fitment etc goes (my actual problem listed here) I don't know yet. But, to my surprise since no one (that I've seen) has mentioned it in these forums I have to mention it here, the "steel plates were burnt to toast [after only 5800 miles LOL .. darn judder spring] and must be replaced". Lesson learned; if you're going to bother with replacing your clutch due to burn-out, don't stop at friction plates. Replace the steel plates.

You can get OEM steel plates here ('16): 

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/22321-KYJ-902

And yes, I know you could probably alternatively get away with just sliding them over concrete. Trying to keep the OEM mechanic happy.

So the mechnanic will put the plates on order and hopefully receive them within the next few days and continue the job.

Edited by stimpy77

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Finally brought the bike home yesterday. Initially they didn't tell me anything, it was fixed, "I don't know what you did" the main guy said. Went back to pick up some stuff I'd left behind, and as I was leaving the mechanic who actually did the work came up to me and confirmed he did the work, and I got him to explain what I had done wrong. He said that the clutch basket cover plate wasn't properly seated, it was teeth on teeth, not nestled in properly. I don't believe it, I checked that, made sure that wasn't the case, but maybe there was another level of it in there. Not gonna open it up now, it's all working fine now. Till next time ...

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Posted (edited)
On 8/18/2019 at 5:00 AM, stimpy77 said:

Finally brought the bike home yesterday. Initially they didn't tell me anything, it was fixed, "I don't know what you did" the main guy said. Went back to pick up some stuff I'd left behind, and as I was leaving the mechanic who actually did the work came up to me and confirmed he did the work, and I got him to explain what I had done wrong. He said that the clutch basket cover plate wasn't properly seated, it was teeth on teeth, not nestled in properly. I don't believe it, I checked that, made sure that wasn't the case, but maybe there was another level of it in there. Not gonna open it up now, it's all working fine now. Till next time ...

shouldn't, but I had it where the pressure plate wasn't centered and the center "hat" was pushing against the pressure plate not allowing it contact the plates.  This is a different style of clutch, it was on a 1985 atc250r motor. The gap was enough that it wouldn't let me put the clutch cover on completely.  When I modded my clutch, almost when the bike was new, I had to refer to a 1986 honda atc200x service manual as to how to make sure the pressure plate is fully seated. It has a very similar clutch to it. I am used to working on clutches that the lifter arm is on the other side, it pushes to rod, then there is "hat" and either a ball bearing or something of bearing. I don't remember the pressure plate needing to fit in grooves of the inner basket, but I very rarely worked on the type of clutch basket setup that a crf250l, atc200x and atc350x have. Beware on the clutch lifter arm of the 250l there is a spring on the bottom, it fits into a notch on the arm and a slot on the cover.....don't do like what happened to me......lose it and have to fall into the oil cavity. I had to get it out with a screwdriver with the tip magnetized.

Edited by deathman53

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On 8/7/2019 at 11:17 AM, stimpy77 said:

Latest news from the mechanic .. 

As far as fitment etc goes (my actual problem listed here) I don't know yet. But, to my surprise since no one (that I've seen) has mentioned it in these forums I have to mention it here, the "steel plates were burnt to toast [after only 5800 miles LOL .. darn judder spring] and must be replaced". Lesson learned; if you're going to bother with replacing your clutch due to burn-out, don't stop at friction plates. Replace the steel plates.

You can get OEM steel plates here ('16): 

https://www.partzilla.com/product/honda/22321-KYJ-902

And yes, I know you could probably alternatively get away with just sliding them over concrete. Trying to keep the OEM mechanic happy.

So the mechnanic will put the plates on order and hopefully receive them within the next few days and continue the job.

Agreed.  I started with new springs and friction plates.  When I tried to clean up the steel plates by rubbing them on concrete, I notice one of the plates was warped from heat. 

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