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jesusmannen

LOTS of water in engine/crank oil!!

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Hello Friends! Just bought a crf 450 from 2004 from a friends friend. He recently had the crank/rod, bearings, cylinder and piston due to a break down...

I bought it cheap because he was feed up with the bike...and the big issue now is that about 25 cl coolant water is in the engine oil. The water pump seals are ok, and there is not a single drop of water in the tranny oil..

something in the cylinder head must be terrible wrong...right?!

 

Im replacing the intake valves in this process too. Theres no shim thin enough to fix the valves clearance

 

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That water pass got deleted on the later models. It really shouldn't leak there regardless of whether or not it was installed. Sounds more like the head gasket was leaking or the head wasnt flat. I recently had a 426 that came to me for water in the cylinder and I found the head warped out .013".

Check the cylinder well, for cracks too.

 

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On 8/11/2019 at 7:36 AM, Shawn_Mc said:

That water pass got deleted on the later models. It really shouldn't leak there regardless of whether or not it was installed. Sounds more like the head gasket was leaking or the head wasnt flat. I recently had a 426 that came to me for water in the cylinder and I found the head warped out .013".

Check the cylinder well, for cracks too.

 

As You said....! The collar wasnt the issue. Got the bike together today and no difference.... The cylinder and crank was replaced after a rod bearing failure. Mabye it was overheated and the head went skew/uneaven as You say...

replaced the gaskets before reasembling the bike

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There might be something funky going on with the way the base of the cylinder fits onto the case on the right side. If you pull the top end again, I'd pull the piston off the rod and check how the cylinder sits down onto the cases without a gasket. That base gasket is only about .015" thick. If it's warped there some how, it'll leak water into the crank side. The way to really figure this out is to pressure check the cooling system. Put 20 psi on it and look around inside the bottom end for the leak. Cracked head, cylinder, something warped etc.

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Posted (edited)

I tore the bike down again today...

When both cylinder and head was of I tested to put them together and pressing hard against a table (gasket was on too). Then I put the lights out and had a flashlight inside the jug. There was a tiny string of light to be seen on the intake side. Both intake valves were almost 0 in clearance and had to be replaced. 

Probably really overheated and the head got warped on intake side?! 

I cant get water in engine oil from a bad seal at the water pump, right? Just clutch/gear oil can be mixen there, right? 

Edited by jesusmannen
Wrong spelling

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Put my cylinder head on a flat mirror an managed to get a .1mm feler gauge easyly in between in several places. Worst case from exhaust and to the back left corner, where the cam chain travels..

This is my issue, right?!

DBE71068-C77A-4A36-B3D7-D8224A39A967.jpeg

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Looks like it. You can lap the head on a thick piece of glass with a sheet of 800 grit glued on. Moving the head in a figure 8 pattern. Then check again. Repeat until flat. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

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5 hours ago, willbilly said:

Looks like it. You can lap the head on a thick piece of glass with a sheet of 800 grit glued on. Moving the head in a figure 8 pattern. Then check again. Repeat until flat. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

Thanks man! Done as You described and now there is no gap between mirror and cylinder head. Did the same with the cylinder and when I put the head in place on the cylinder there is no string of light to be seen with a flashligt inside the cylinder.  Putting the bike together this afternon (Swedish time😉)

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Did you use new gaskets? They crush and shouldn’t be reused. Did you check the cylinder/ case mating as Shawn suggested?

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One more thing: make sure the drain hole on bottom of water pump is not plugged. If the coolant seal fails it allows coolant to drain instead of going past the oil seal.

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32 minutes ago, willbilly said:

One more thing: make sure the drain hole on bottom of water pump is not plugged. If the coolant seal fails it allows coolant to drain instead of going past the oil seal.

Coolant Water cant mix with crank oil, right? Hondas got separate oil for tranny and crank. I reused gaskets thats been mounted for 2 minutes and the ammount of coolant water is too much for being gasket issue I think, but I may be wrong!?

put some tube gasket on both sides of base gasket just to make sure it sealed better

Edited by jesusmannen
Wrong spelling

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Coolant water can mix with crank oil most likely because of the head gasket or the head it self if the surface is not even or not sealing
Also take a good look at the head and cylinder if it’s not cracked anywhere
Make sure that the overflow house from the radiator is not pinched anywhere it may create pressure and blow the gasket on the cylinder head

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Gotta run new gaskets, especially if they leaked once already. Take it all apart, recheck the head etc. Use new gaskets, get the torque correct and it should be fine.

Dry fit everything first. check the head to the cylinder off the bike. Make sure those meet perfectly flat +/- .05mm (that's what gaskets are for)

Typically, if I think Ive got an iffy gasket surface on a cylinder head, I'll get clean grease on my fingers and smear the tiniest little bit on both sides of the gasket. That will allow the gasket to "flow" as it's torqued and it'll conform to the surfaces more readily. When I say tiniest, I mean rub your thumb and fingers together, then go around the gasket. Also make sure the cylinder and cylinder to head dowels are clean and not burred up. That head should plop into place when it's squared up correctly.

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3 hours ago, Shawn_Mc said:

Gotta run new gaskets, especially if they leaked once already. Take it all apart, recheck the head etc. Use new gaskets, get the torque correct and it should be fine.

Dry fit everything first. check the head to the cylinder off the bike. Make sure those meet perfectly flat +/- .05mm (that's what gaskets are for)

Typically, if I think Ive got an iffy gasket surface on a cylinder head, I'll get clean grease on my fingers and smear the tiniest little bit on both sides of the gasket. That will allow the gasket to "flow" as it's torqued and it'll conform to the surfaces more readily. When I say tiniest, I mean rub your thumb and fingers together, then go around the gasket. Also make sure the cylinder and cylinder to head dowels are clean and not burred up. That head should plop into place when it's squared up correctly.

Thanks, I'll try that!

I think the head gasket can be it... The bike was hard to start and didnt idle well. Had to screw up the idle much to prevent from stalling/stop. I guess thats because the compression leaks out of a bad sealing head gasket?! Ordered a new set of top end gaskets now.

A bit worried about How the jug fits the cases, as you wrote earlier. The top part of the jug wasnt even..., maby the bottom isnt either......and the gasket fails to seal. Have to check that again with the cylinder fitted without gasket.. If this is the issue, do I have to replace the cylinder or is there a way to have it recurfaced and square?

Have a nice day, and thanks again!

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New gaskets has arrived! Just a wondering....! Can coolant water mix with engine oil thru counter balance shaft? If bearings are worn and water pump seals are bad!?

Ive made sure the bottom of the cylinder is flat....wasnt before!

I put all together without gaskets installed and with a flashlight inside and nuts only torqued to, lets say 10-15 Nm, and there were no streak of light to be seen. Before I flattened the parts there was a clear streak of light between jug and cases and between jug and head on 2-3 sides...

Found out that the bike is from 2002, not 2004, if that will make any difference?

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Flatened head, top and under cylinder and made sure there was no gap...

used new gaskets and torqued to right torque in 5-6 intervalls, (cross pattern)

59Nm head nuts and 9.8 Nm on the 6mm bolts on left side

No difference! Still mixing big ammount of water in engine oil

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