1972 XL250 Restoration

[AMSinator]

I supplied Hyster/Yale pallet fork lift manufacturer 3 different grease Amsoil GWR (Water Resistant trailer bearing Grease), GLC (Lithium High Temp wheel bearing grease) and GHD (Heavy Duty Chassis Molybedenum fortified)  to evaluate/test, so they could determine what worked best in a Timken pivot bearing application that they were having problems with rusting and wearing out quickly creating Warranty/Quality longevity problems. NACCO/Hyster-Yale/NMHG as they are know in our parts determined that there was less H2O wash out and better results for wear protection using the GHD grease. After reviewing the Technical Data Bulletins on the 3 greases the Amsoil GHD Heavy Duty Moly Fortified grease indeed had the most Water/Moisture wash out resistance, thus my statement of "Amsoil = > water wash out resistance..." NACCO had been trying many different greases to try help solve their issues. Fortunately for me I was the local dealer they turned to for product to try.

This grease has since been updated & new product code GPTR Polymetric truck grease having better qualities for heavy duty use.

Lithium greases are normally for rotational applications of greater than 360 degree plus turning, such as wheel bearings for hubs, spindles, or rotating shafts.

Moly/Chassis greases are normally used for less than 360 degree movement, such as shackles, pivots & pivot bushings, linkage movement etc. I will have to check for certain, but I believe the GPTR can be used in wheel bearings, but may not be the first choice. I have used the GHD in 4WD front hub bearings for its rust corrosion resistance in 4WD applications.

PM me if you want/need some.  I can help you get it.

On another note, I am considering buying a 72' XL-250 from a friend, that needs a Powroll crankshaft rebuild. It is a Hybrid Frankenstein of a 71ish SL-125 and 72' XL-250 frames.

I am not sure what to offer him.

Can I ask what you paid for yours? or have you had it many years? 

[madcap]

That's excellent information - wish I'd known a few days ago about reusing the axle. but already have another NOS ordered. Maybe I can dress up the original as you mentioned and let someone else use  it. As long as the new one is paid for I may as well use it. The original brake baking plate was damaged but have an NOS replacement I'll definitely take you advise on  bearings, spacers and lube....thanks for your input.

The frame is ready for sand blasting soon as I have a chance to get to it - got the motor out yesterday. Not sure what to expect on the condition of the motor but hoping for the best. It was running without any issues but that was several years ago before setting it aside  in the garage. I'd quit ridding it after acquiring a '48 Indian Chief that has since been sold three years ago.

I'll plan on what to do about bearings after looking them over but will take a few days to find time. A couple other priorities need attention first before getting back to the XL.

Thanks again for the information AMsinator - it's appreciated very much.

17 hours ago, AMSinator said:

Sand it with 80 grit coarse paper, verify straightness, lube it with Synthetic moly chassis grease (Normally I use Amsoil = > water wash out resistance).

Be sure to clean out ID of bearings and verify bearing quality, sand ID of spacers, brake backing plate and reuse axle.

You can drive out bearings with drift, clean out, verify quality, & repack w/ Syn. lithium grease or one rated for 360 degree plus rotation(Amsoil). I have used chassis grease if rated properly. Or replace w/ new, but still pack w/ quality grease. You can match bearings up at most "Good Parts" stores, or go to the local bearing supplier. But buy good bearings.

Make sure the threads on axle & nut are not damaged and repair if needed. 

Unless you are MX jumping/skying this bike I would reuse it.

Is the Synthetic chassis grease (Amsoil) the same as the Syn. lithium grease for the  bearings or no?  Also what so yo mean "Amsoil = > water wash out resistance..."

Thanks

[madcap]

Motor has bebn removed from the frame is ready for sand blasting but have a couple other priorities in the way first but will get to it ASAP.

Edited September 18, 2019 by madcap

[madcap]

I don't know what's going on but I've been trying to post a couple replies and photos but something  is messed up here. Maybe it's me, but now it's double prior posts. 

Anyway I've had my XL since new in 1972. Put 27,000+ mile on it and can't recall it ever failing one time. Paid $700+ for it from a Honda shop South of Salt Lake City I was told that Robert Redford owned at the time.

What's your professional background? From what you mention about the grease it sounds like it has something to do with engineering.

 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by madcap

[AMSinator]

I remember when that bike was introduced on the cover of Cycle magazine. My mother bought it for me to drool over. I had a SL-100-K2 Motorsport.

The frame looks like it has already been painted from the pics. ARE you sure you want to strip and repaint frame? Maybe just clean up the bare metal areas with rust on it? Think of the minor rust as "Patina". By, pics, it looks like you have also sanded tank to bare metal? My thinking is it's value and collectability might be greater with the original paint?? 

Do you have the original "Bill of Sale" and Title? This would be a great bike for documentation by "Original Owner".

Motorcycle/HD Truck/Automotive/DIYer for a living since 1974. Worked @ Motorcycle OEM dealers while working for Toyota as line Technician and UPS as Fleet Journey Mechanic after 4 years(2 Auto/2 Diesel) of Technical Training @ local Community College, Wilson, NC. Went back to Automotive School to complete Associates after working in field for after 37 years. Started teaching Automotive Systems Technology for North Carolina Community College System in 2012 on.

I am also an Amsoil Direct Jobber and have been doing that with many Retail(Motorcycle/Auto accounts)/Commercial/ Individuals as a Small business since 1997.

I moved(1st vehicle, 84 Nissan converted to Amsoil at that point) to Bryan/College Station back in 1988 chasing a first marriage, stayed there until late 1990. Lived in 1972 "Arro" motorhome in a 20' x 50' partitioned off metal building. I got the pleasure of riding the "Sam Houston National Forrest Trail System Recreational area a couple of times. Great humungous sand whoops amongst huge Pine forest. Visited Austin(Music & Bat emergence form under Congress Bridge),San-Marcus River floating Wimberly-Hill Country, San-Antonio(Quadalupe'(SP?) river rafting & Got to see Million+ bats emerge from "Old Railroad Tunnel Bridge" State Park), Galveston(Drove 2WD Nissan on Gulf Beach), Dallas(Midnight Bicycle Ride & REAL Triumph/BSA dealership), Sommerville Lake(Dirt Bikin'), Fredericksburg(Enchanted Rock State Park), Wildflower Center, Perdanales(SP?). Worked at the local Boisier Chrysler dealer for 6 weeks, and then worked for "University Toyota" for 1.5 years until it was time to Go home. Got to go to Houston multiple times for Toyota training(& Midnight Bicycle Ride Halloween). Got carried away as usual, just thought you might be interested FWIW that and $2 will get you a bottle of H2O..

How about you, what Part of "Don't Mess With Texas" are you from/in?

Will you take  a crisp $100?"Blue Boy" for that Basket Case you got on your hands now??? I wish I had my first bought by myself for $498, 72'1/2, bought SL-100. 

 

 

 

[madcap]

That must be the same magazine that I remember the Honda XL250 was on the cover and I couldn't get my mind off of it. I thought it was beautiful and the perfect bike for me. Some time  after that my girlfriend drove me to the shop where I paid $700 for the one I'm restoring now, 47 years later....................I can not believe, it has been that long. I just shake my head. Wish I'd kept the orig sale receipt but never thought of it at the time which is unusual since I sometimes  keep that sort of stuff sometimes.

I'm in Fredericksburg...about  15 miles from Enchanted Rock that I've climbed a few times over the years. Been here since 1989 - now it's all tourist oriented, expensive and getting far too crowded for my taste.

The frame is pretty good and straight but as long as I'm restoring the bike I thought it should be redone as well. The tank has a few shallow dents and the original paint and decals were scratched. It's been stripped and now being de-rusted. After rust is removed, original silver metallic will be painted and OEM decals applied that I purchased a few a years ago. It should look like new with any luck. Also NOS  fenders with decals. The original fenders were damaged. An NOS rear axle came today but end nut adjuster isn't chrome like the original on my bike. Honda replaced the earlier XL's chrome nut with white cad but it'll to do for now unless I can find a chrome one later on and sell this new one.

When it's ready to lube and and pack bearings, etc,  I'll probably want to take you up on some of that grease..  Till then, parts will be cleaned blasted and primed. Looking forward to all of at this point but naturally things never goes that smoothly but I have it finished in my head anyway...

 

You should try to find an early XL for yourself somewhere....unfortunately it'll prolly cost ya more than a 100 dollars though. 

Edited September 19, 2019 by madcap

[AMSinator]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:26 AM, madcap said:

I'm in Fredericksburg...about  15 miles from Enchanted Rock that I've climbed a few times over the years. Been here since 1989 - now it's all tourist oriented, expensive and getting far too crowded for my taste.

I agree, I have a line on the early 72' XL-250/7? SL-125 Frankenbike, my friend from Rocky Mount, NC still has, it is heavily modified, just not Purdy. Looks are my least concern on my older bikes, as I like the sleeper look.

Remember to coat the bare metal inside that tank with oil or wax- SOMETHING that will not let bare metal rust, because it will rust inside out bare before you know it!

 

On 9/19/2019 at 12:26 AM, madcap said:

I'm in Fredericksburg...about  15 miles from Enchanted Rock that I've climbed a few times over the years. Been here since 1989 - now it's all tourist oriented, expensive and getting far too crowded for my taste.

That was about the time we camped there, climbed the rock & drove towards San-Antonio to raft the Guadalupe'(SP?) River. We ate German food in Fredericksburg, and when we were leaving town I got to stop & Drool over a SunBeam V-8 Tiger, like the original car "Get Smart" drove, not that junky VW ghia. 

[madcap]

Thanks for the tip on the gas tank. As it is now, I'm still slowly removing rust from the inside through electrolysis (going 4 weeks now.) The  charger I'm using is only a trickle charger and only pulls about 2A I think  - so I guess that's why is so slow. But I'll definitely  use some sort of sealer immediately after the tank is clean.....any suggestions on what sealer would be best? I would prefer to use a chemical sealer I think rather than an epoxy type but not really that familiar with what the best options should be.

Good luck on the"Frankinbike" depending on what you decide and let me know if you ever make it back to Fredericksburg....

Best,

Dick

[AMSinator]

So it sounds like the tank is pretty rusted and pitted?

Is there any evidence of pitting rotting through the actual tank?

At the bike shops I worked at, we would actually put many old nut/bolts broken fragments inside of rusted up tanks to try break the rust loose before creaming decision.

I'm not sure if I would actually use a sealer such as the coating system until you are sure rusted pitted areas are all the way through.

I would "Cream" the tank "Only if Needed".  

What I meant to say by,  "seal tank", is to be sure to keep it coated w/ a rust preventive coating, especially if it is going to sit for any amount of time, no matter where it sits.

I have a 74' Honda 750K3(?) with Wysong (70's popular) Mural custom paint that the gas had actually varnished & sealed inner metal, I got it to come out in a sheet. The inner tank was near perfect. Forgot to coat w/ wax/sealer and it rusted inside out in about 4 years sitting inside my air conditioned home. I am still a sick puppy. School of hard knocks was definitely in session that day. 

Amsoil HD metal protector is a good choice for the protection, unless you are putting it to use very, very soon..

I learned this info from a Triumph restorer friend in Fayettenam, NC

Thanks for visit offer, might take you up on it one day/year. 

[madcap]

The tank doesn't indicate it's pitted much inside nor is it rotted at all. I'd like to coat the inside with a chemical of some sort to seal the metal or stop and inhibit further rust after the present rust is eliminated....it won't be put to use for a few months till the bike is reassembled. Sounds like the "Amsoil HD metal protector" would be the stuff to use then. 

[S.O.A.N.Z]

any metal fuel tank sealer will be fine

[madcap]

7 minutes ago, S.O.A.N.Z said:

any metal fuel tank sealer will be fine

Can you recommend something in particular that would seal it chemically in addition to the Amsoil HD?

There are no holes  or cracks....this is my first experience  - thanks.

Edited September 29, 2019 by madcap

[S.O.A.N.Z]

1 minute ago, madcap said:

Can you recommend something in particular that would seal it chemically in addition to the Amsoil HD?

There are no holes  or cracks....this is my first experience  - thanks.

There are heaps to choose from

https://www.google.com/search?q=metal+fuel+tank+sealer&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiUhoiimffkAhWJfCsKHW4HCyAQ_AUIEigC&biw=1920&bih=984

[madcap]

I'm BACK! Had to deal with some other things that got in the way but have the gas tank cleaned and rust removed. After the electrolysis continued forever I finally got some  and it finished the job well. A little diesel was poured in and swished around to prevent further rust then some Bondo added to some minor dents. There's one larger rather shallow dent I'd like to pop out but not sure what method yet.

 Anyway I plan on getting back to work on XL and will post progress.

[76xtdrvr]

On 9/18/2019 at 6:04 AM, AMSinator said:

I remember when that bike was introduced on the cover of Cycle magazine.

 

On 9/19/2019 at 12:26 AM, madcap said:

That must be the same magazine that I remember the Honda XL250 was on the cover and I couldn't get my mind off of it.

I still have the magazine  . Great bike. I owned a 125 Suzuki featured in the same issue.

[madcap]

I'm BACK! Had to deal with some other things that got in the way but have the gas tank cleaned and rust removed. After the electrolysis continued forever I finally got some  and it finished the job well. A little diesel was poured in and swished around to prevent further rust then some Bondo added to some minor dents. There's one larger rather shallow dent I'd like to pop out but not sure what method yet.

 Anyway I plan on getting back to work on XL and will post progress.

Thanks for sharing the cover of this great bike on Cycle. I'm not sure if that's the magazine I remember in particular but definitely pleased to see it.

[prandalljackson]

There is a YouTube video about how to remove dents from a motorcycle tank. The guy uses hot glue to attach a stud with a flat head. Then the dent is pulled and the glue is re-warmed and the stud removed. I'm sure it is not as easy as it looks but it might be worth a try.

[madcap]

20 hours ago, prandalljackson said:

There is a YouTube video about how to remove dents from a motorcycle tank. The guy uses hot glue to attach a stud with a flat head. Then the dent is pulled and the glue is re-warmed and the stud removed. I'm sure it is not as easy as it looks but it might be worth a try.

Thanks,

I saw that and another that looked very interesting by using a balloon type of device to blow up and pressurize the dent from inside the tank. I may try the later if I can find an old blood pressure cuff or something similar.

[madcap]

My project hasn't progressed much the last few months however there is a proud note to share regarding the seat. Repairs were made to the foam and  pan was repainted. A search for an original style cover finally resulted in one from a truly great eBay source from Thailand. The first attempt was a failure. Due to my inexperience  the stitching around the reinforced edge that secured it to the pan ripped. I texted the seller and they sent a another cover for free including shipping which amazingly took about three or four days. The new cover was then installed professionally for $60 and results are perfectly beautiful and looks completely original.

Edited January 19, 2020 by madcap

[Turboloader]

On 1/19/2020 at 10:52 AM, madcap said:

My project hasn't progressed much the last few months however there is a proud note to share regarding the seat. Repairs were made to the foam and  pan was repainted. A search for an original style cover finally resulted in one from a truly great eBay source from Thailand. The first attempt was a failure. Due to my inexperience  the stitching around the reinforced edge that secured it to the pan ripped. I texted the seller and they sent a another cover for free including shipping which amazingly took about three or four days. The new cover was then installed professionally for $60 and results are perfectly beautiful and looks completely original.

Yours turned out nicely, I paid some one to redo a cr seat a few years back and it came back lumpy not cr sleek like it should be. I tore the whole thing apart and had to scrape the "batting" they glued on the foam! Good grief, I returned back to factory stock....