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Water pump seal/rebuild kit, anyone replace their waterpump seal?

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I had dropped the x-mission oil and it came out milky and I had to top off my radiator with 3-4 oz of coolant so I think that my waterpump seal is on the way out.  

Has anyone else had to replace the seal on their waterpump?  

 

I do have 249 hours and some 4,300 miles so I must be due.  

 

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If you do change your waterpump seal I would put the better boano racing water pump impellar at the same time... Since you are going in there anyway. Do it all right.. So your bike will run cooler..just a thought. I m wondering if I should change my waterpump seal etc too before installing my Boano impellar..

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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On 8/24/2019 at 11:13 PM, hawaiidirtrider said:

If you do change your waterpump seal I would put the better boano racing water pump impellar at the same time... Since you are going in there anyway. Do it all right.. So your bike will run cooler..just a thought. I m wondering if I should change my waterpump seal etc too before installing my Boano impellar..

 

I took your advice, HDR, and since I was shipped the oversized Boano impeller, the billet spacer, longer bolts and an extra seal, I put it in today as the waterpump rebuild kit finally came.  

The waterpump seal was simple to replace.  I even got some cheap Harbor Freight pick tools that had helped get the old waterpump seal out.  I could see, on the inside of the seal, where it was leaking.  I do have an extra waterpump shaft and the bearings as from what I can tell, one has to go in from the other side of the motor to get the shaft and the bearings out and I was not ready to do it if I didn't/don't have to.  

The oversized impeller and the billet spacer were also simple to install.  

I could tell right away that the seal had fixed the coolant getting into the x-mission oil as once it was safe to take the cap off the radiator, the coolant did not go below the radiator fins at the top of the radiator and after a ride, same thing.  

Now I just wait for the new wiring harnesses' and I might have my bike back to 100%.  

 

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8 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

I took your advice, HDR, and since I was shipped the oversized Boano impeller, the billet spacer, longer bolts and an extra seal, I put it in today as the waterpump rebuild kit finally came.  

The waterpump seal was simple to replace.  I even got some cheap Harbor Freight pick tools that had helped get the old waterpump seal out.  I could see, on the inside of the seal, where it was leaking.  I do have an extra waterpump shaft and the bearings as from what I can tell, one has to go in from the other side of the motor to get the shaft and the bearings out and I was not ready to do it if I didn't/don't have to.  

The oversized impeller and the billet spacer were also simple to install.  

I could tell right away that the seal had fixed the coolant getting into the x-mission oil as once it was safe to take the cap off the radiator, the coolant did not go below the radiator fins at the top of the radiator and after a ride, same thing.  

Now I just wait for the new wiring harnesses' and I might have my bike back to 100%.  

 

My buddies that have gotten the hiflo impellars have said that their Betas run cooler. I had to order one myself. I hope it all works great for you too. 

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3 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

My buddies that have gotten the hiflo impellars have said that their Betas run cooler. I had to order one myself. I hope it all works great for you too. 

At least the green-ish transmission milkshake, and crappy shifting, and extreme clutch-creep due to fluid contamination, are gone.  

 

I may do the seal in 200 more hours as I'm at 250 hours now.  I may also keep a spare seal, and the gasket for the WP, so when(never if)-it goes, I can just instantly swap it out. 

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My friends have seen cooling  improvements with adding a hiflo impellar. It’s why I ordered one for my 300 rr. I didn’t put mine on yet. It’s not bad as it is but it’s good to run cooler. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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11 hours ago, jamve said:

Has the oversized water pump helped with keeping it cooler?

I have no facts or science behind my words, but I do believe the bike has been running just a tad cooler or, if the temp does go up, it goes down quicker with the larger impeller kit. 

 

It is always eye-opening, seeing the instant effects of being able to pick up some speed to get air moving over the radiators and watching the temp. decrease on the Voyager as well as seeing what happens to both the voltage and the temp when the fan kicks on and off.  

It is, like most things, an install-and-forget sort of thing but, knowing it is in there and giving me more cooling is a nice, cozy feeling.  

 

The oddest part for me now, now that it will be in the 20's to 40's riding around this upcoming late fall/winter/spring, is that I am now considering putting on the PST engine jacket that I use for the snow bike, even for riding on the street as the engine temps are only getting to 170 to 180F.  I'll see how they will go on steady high 20/below freezing temps while riding as the motor will stay from 140 to 150F for most of the ride.  Going from hot summers to cold winters is how it is up here in MA, especially when I'm one of the only nutbags riding an RR-S all year round.  

 

If I had not gotten shipped the impeller by accident, I very much doubt I'd have bought it.  

For the money and the ease of install, and for all warm weather riding, any strain taken off the battery from the fan kicking on, might be worth it as it is nothing for the engine to have it installed.  That it is under $200 is also nice.  

Edited by Ben500RR-S
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18 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

My friends have seen cooling  improvements with adding a hiflo impellar. It’s why I ordered one for my 300 rr. I didn’t put mine on yet. It’s not bad as it is but it’s good to run cooler. 

That's good to hear. Thanks. I have been wanting one for a while. 

11 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

I have no facts or science behind my words, but I do believe the bike has been running just a tad cooler or, if the temp does go up, it goes down quicker with the larger impeller kit. 

 

It is always eye-opening, seeing the instant effects of being able to pick up some speed to get air moving over the radiators and watching the temp. decrease on the Voyager as well as seeing what happens to both the voltage and the temp when the fan kicks on and off.  

It is, like most things, an install-and-forget sort of thing but, knowing it is in there and giving me more cooling is a nice, cozy feeling.  

 

The oddest part for me now, now that it will be in the 20's to 40's riding around this upcoming late fall/winter/spring, is that I am now considering putting on the PST engine jacket that I use for the snow bike, even for riding on the street as the engine temps are only getting to 170 to 180F.  I'll see how they will go on steady high 20/below freezing temps while riding as the motor will stay from 140 to 150F for most of the ride.  Going from hot summers to cold winters is how it is up here in MA, especially when I'm one of the only nutbags riding an RR-S all year round.  

 

If I had not gotten shipped the impeller by accident, I very much doubt I'd have bought it.  

For the money and the ease of install, and for all warm weather riding, any strain taken off the battery from the fan kicking on, might be worth it as it is nothing for the engine to have it installed.  That it is under $200 is also nice.  

Thank you. I'm ordering one along with the plastic oil pump gears. I figure when it's time to do the clutch maybe I'll spend the extra coin for the steel gears.

Edited by jamve

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If it means anything at all, the very nice woman who I had spoken with about the mix-up I had between the water pump seal kit and the oversized waterpump had mentioned that most all their Beta's get the part installed from the word "Jump/Go!"  She had reported that it is done because it absolutely makes a difference.  

It was in the mid 20's this morning and my engine temp only got to about 150F.  I was bundled up, heated gloves, neckwarmer-dressed to snowmobile so I was nice.  

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I usually ride the same or near the same areas so I should easily see the differences. I'm always looking at the temp. Since I'm going in and changing the oil pump gears I might as well do the oversized water pump, shaft and seals.

 

It's been hot out here in CA. I like riding in Baja and the Sea of Cortez weather was 85 last weekend.

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With the spacer, impeller, gasket and longer bolts, the swap is easy-street as far as install goes.  

 

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On 11/13/2019 at 7:03 AM, Ben500RR-S said:

With the spacer, impeller, gasket and longer bolts, the swap is easy-street as far as install goes.  

 

Was the shaft grooved at all and has it leaked since replacing the seal?

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I'm pretty sure the seal is leaking again.  

I'm going to order two new seals this morning.  

I was riding on Friday and had noticed that the yellow warning light I had set to go off at 230F was on.  The temp had gotten up to a max of 240 or 244.  I got home and checked and had to add some coolant.  

 

I went riding on Tuesday and same thing, the coolant was low again and I was lucky enough to get to go and ride again yesterday and same thing, low coolant.  I dropped the transmission oil and could see the coolant in the oil.  It has been about 100 hours and I suspect that the waterpump seal has gone out again.  I'll order two new seals and see what is going on when they arrive.  

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4 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

I'm pretty sure the seal is leaking again.  

I'm going to order two new seals this morning.  

I was riding on Friday and had noticed that the yellow warning light I had set to go off at 230F was on.  The temp had gotten up to a max of 240 or 244.  I got home and checked and had to add some coolant.  

 

I went riding on Tuesday and same thing, the coolant was low again and I was lucky enough to get to go and ride again yesterday and same thing, low coolant.  I dropped the transmission oil and could see the coolant in the oil.  It has been about 100 hours and I suspect that the waterpump seal has gone out again.  I'll order two new seals and see what is going on when they arrive.  

You should replace the waterpump shaft as well as the seals as the shaft will get a groove in it which accelerates seal failure. It shouldn't be too difficult to replace, but it will likely require removing the Right Hand engine cover, but once the cover is off most shafts are easy enough to replace without any special tools.

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50 minutes ago, pscook said:

You should replace the waterpump shaft as well as the seals as the shaft will get a groove in it which accelerates seal failure. It shouldn't be too difficult to replace, but it will likely require removing the Right Hand engine cover, but once the cover is off most shafts are easy enough to replace without any special tools.

This is, good advice for sure.  

I have done at least 2,000 miles and another 100 hours. Last year, I did get the entire water pump rebuild kit but did not replace the shaft or the bearings so I still have them.  I am going to remove the inner clutch cover to hopefully get the water pump shaft off and replaced along with the bearings.  I'll first look to see if there is any groove at all in the current shaft.  

I have two seals and gaskets on the way from my local(25 miles away-dealer) and another on the way from Brown's in Paso Robles, to see which one gets to me first.  

 

I might even disassemble the water pump and clutch after work as I'll be too curious as to how it all comes apart, at the expense of some cheap Rotella oil and coolant.  

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8 hours ago, pscook said:

You should replace the waterpump shaft as well as the seals as the shaft will get a groove in it which accelerates seal failure. It shouldn't be too difficult to replace, but it will likely require removing the Right Hand engine cover, but once the cover is off most shafts are easy enough to replace without any special tools.

You know, pscook, you inspired me with your suggestion, thank you.  

The inner clutch cover just needed to come off and other than disconnecting the hose and removing the kickstarter, the cover comes off easily.  

I had also realized that once the cover comes off, the water pump shaft comes right out.  I really should have done this last year but live and learn-the hard(er)-way.  

The water pump oil seal does not ride on the water pump shaft rather, it rides on the bushing that then rides on the water pump shaft and one can see in the images that the bushing is quite worn.  

I had gotten the old bearings out and they did not spin all that well.  I wonder if it was due to the green milkshake that was made last summer when the first seal had gone-out.  The bearings either got contaminated or, just plain wore-out as they are small and with something like 365 hours and some 6,500 miles, there is good reason why the bearings are included in the water pump rebuild kit that Beta sells.  

I have the following on order/on the way;

Inner clutch cover gasket.  Water pump gasket. O-ring for the water pump shaft.  The oil seal bushing, the kickstarter seal and the oil seal.  

The water pump shaft is hardly worn at all as the bushing is what rotates inside the oil seal but as I have a spare shaft, it will be going in once the parts arrive.  

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ben500RR-S said:

This is, good advice for sure.  

I have done at least 2,000 miles and another 100 hours. Last year, I did get the entire water pump rebuild kit but did not replace the shaft or the bearings so I still have them.  I am going to remove the inner clutch cover to hopefully get the water pump shaft off and replaced along with the bearings.  I'll first look to see if there is any groove at all in the current shaft.  

I have two seals and gaskets on the way from my local(25 miles away-dealer) and another on the way from Brown's in Paso Robles, to see which one gets to me first.  

 

I might even disassemble the water pump and clutch after work as I'll be too curious as to how it all comes apart, at the expense of some cheap Rotella oil and coolant.  

Edit due to whatever just happened with a delayed connection. Anyway.

Good to know about the bushing being sacrificial and that the shaft has an oring. Neat configuration. I will see mine at some point, so it's good to know what it looks like on the inside.

Edited by pscook
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11 hours ago, pscook said:

Edit due to whatever just happened with a delayed connection. Anyway.

Good to know about the bushing being sacrificial and that the shaft has an oring. Neat configuration. I will see mine at some point, so it's good to know what it looks like on the inside.

Yes, it is good that the bushing is sacrificed vs the shaft.  That bushing looks beat-up and is all grooved and discolored.  

Now I know why all the parts that come in the water pump rebuild kit are provided as they should all be changed out anytime the pump/seal/bushing needs attention.  Thankfully it is easy enough to pull the inner clutch cover to get at it.  

 

I just have to wait on the parts to come in to put it all back together.  

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