Does a 125 make a better rider?

[Knightly]

Which very few people actually do....

I guess I should have said that while learning to ride, a 125 is a valuable tool to help you master clutch, throttle, momentum and planning. It not the end all be all for training. Time in the saddle being intensional about working on your skill is the best. The four strokes allow you to be lazy while the 125 demands your attention... but you can be intensional on a four stroke... you just don’t have to be.

[Knightly]

Relatively new here:) and pretty inexperienced compared to most. I seem to find a theme of grand statements made but no backstory on the type of riding etc. When I read of “doubles and tracks” it’s a different universe to me yet the way some things are stated it as if it’s universal gospel. Am I correct that it’s a bit of a regional/location and a “horses for courses” thing or dammit do I need to buy a 125 now...

You don’t need to buy a 125, but they do (in my opinion) have a place. Don’t worry about the lingo, every sport has it’s language. You’ll learn it with time[emoji106][emoji846]. Just get out and ride... anything!

[Hans Schmid]

2 minutes ago, Knightly said:

 

 

I guess I should have said that while learning to ride, a 125 is a valuable tool to help you master clutch, throttle, momentum and planning. It not the end all be all for training. Time in the saddle being intensional about working on your skill is the best. The four strokes allow you to be lazy while the 125 demands your attention... but you can be intensional on a four stroke... you just don’t have to be.

 

 

Motor size or stroke make no difference, you can be lazy on anything...Justifying the use of a 125 to make you a better rider is false...

[bweighmaster]

I ride  everything ,     50 cc up to 450cc    .   I own many bikes , repair some also ..    after riding the  YZ450 F  .  I  ride the  KLX  140  to wind down before getting on the KX 250 F .  When i go to the race park I take a CRF 100 ,  a  KX 250 F , and something else ,  just depends on my mood ..  might take a KX 100 .  KDX 250 ,  OR maybe the  TTR 125 ..   Different bikes make for a better rider ,  different techniques ,  muscles , , mindset ,  exercising every part of the body .....  try it if you can .  IT WORKS .....

[Knightly]

Motor size or stroke make no difference, you can be lazy on anything...Justifying the use of a 125 to make you a better rider is false...

It just different opinions.[emoji846]

I’m just reporting on what I experienced. I’m a big bore guy that has to modify everything I ride to be faster... yet I learned something riding a 125, the least powerful of the full size bikes.

I agree that you can be fast on anything with hard work[emoji106]

[Beta300REcat]

1 hour ago, Hans Schmid said:

You have a better chance of shorting that double with a 125 then with a 450... "oh, I now have a broken leg but my clutch technique is getting better" 

[Beta300REcat]

3 minutes ago, Knightly said:

yet I learned something riding a 125

Me too.

An experienced 185 pound rider is faster than a 140 pound beginner.?

[Hans Schmid]

26 minutes ago, Knightly said:

It just different opinions.

I’m just reporting on what I experienced. I’m a big bore guy that has to modify everything I ride to be faster... yet I learned something riding a 125, the least powerful of the full size bikes.

I agree that you can be fast on anything with hard work

My disagreement comes from when you (or anyone) say it's a 'bike issue'...  No motorcycle is going to make you a better rider of you don't put the actual work in...

For example, riding a 125 for 50hrs for the sake of riding won't make you a better rider then someone putting in 30hrs of solid structured practice on a 450f.

[Drop-Bear]

10 minutes ago, Hans Schmid said:

My disagreement comes from when you (or anyone) say it's a 'bike issue'...  No motorcycle is going to make you a better rider of you don't put the actual work in...

For example, riding a 125 for 50hrs for the sake of riding won't make you a better rider then someone putting in 30hrs of solid structured practice on a 450f.

That depends on what level you're at.

An experienced rider, Yes. A less experienced rider. No.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Drop-Bear

[Hans Schmid]

1 minute ago, Drop-Bear said:

That depends on what level you're at.

Based on the OP question. I assume you have a fairly strong grasp and more then basic understanding of how to ride a motorcycle. I am also not talking the extremes of both ends of ability. One being total beginner and the other be a Pro... 

[Drop-Bear]

4 minutes ago, Hans Schmid said:

Based on the OP question. I assume you have a fairly strong grasp and more then basic understanding of how to ride a motorcycle. I am also not talking the extremes of both ends of ability. One being total beginner and the other be a Pro... 

I've seen 250 2T's with a Rekluse, and the clutch taken off the bike. Try riding a 125 without a clutch.

As i said. A 125 forces you to have good technique.

Mistakes are easily hidden on a larger bike. On a 125, there's no where to hide.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Drop-Bear

[Drop-Bear]

46 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

If you agree with that. It's time to stop drinking. Not start.

[Hans Schmid]

5 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

I've seen 250 2T's with a Rekluse, and the clutch taken off the bike. Try riding a 125 without a clutch.

As i said. A 125 forces you to have good technique.

Mistakes are easily hidden on a larger bike. On a 125, there's no where to hide.

You live in fantasy land of you think riding a 125 make you a better rider, otherwise we would all be riding 125s. 

See my first post of you want to be a better rider, simple as that.. 

[Drop-Bear]

11 minutes ago, Hans Schmid said:

You live in fantasy land of you think riding a 125 make you a better rider, otherwise we would all be riding 125s. 

See my first post of you want to be a better rider, simple as that.. 

Your logic is screwed. Or, your comprehension. A 125, is, a stepping stone. Once you can ride it efficiently, and confidently, you move along. Same as most things in life. You know, walk before you run etc.

You must also think your opinion holds more weight than anyone else's. If so,  I've got news for you, but, It's all bad. 

Plus, just because It's messing with my OCD. If. not of. Just aim your finger a little more to the left.

 

Edited August 26, 2019 by Drop-Bear

[Hans Schmid]

1 minute ago, Drop-Bear said:

Your logic is screwed. Or, your comprehension. A 125, is, a stepping stone. Once you can ride it efficiently, and confidently, you move along. Same as most things in life. You know, walk before you run etc.

 

The OP stated going back, not moving up.

But, FYI the majority of the current class of the best Supercross/Motocross racers in the world have never ridden a 125, how would you explain their progress? Luck?

[Drop-Bear]

28 minutes ago, Hans Schmid said:

The OP stated going back, not moving up.

But, FYI the majority of the current class of the best Supercross/Motocross racers in the world have never ridden a 125, how would you explain their progress? Luck?

I raced MX, started on a 250, moved my way up to 450. Came 2nd in my regional series. And, had to work my ass off to do so. Then. I went back to off road riding. Realised how lazy the 450 had made me. Had to get back on a 125 and start over.

Skills are like brains. Use them, or lose them. Ever heard of revision?

So, based on my own experience. I strongly disagree. 

The currant class never rode a 125? Prove that. Because I'm not buying that. Unless you can prove that. I'm calling BS.

A lot of the currant crop of MXGP riders, won a 125 EMX championship

Edited August 26, 2019 by Drop-Bear

[Hans Schmid]

Just now, Drop-Bear said:

I raced MX, started on a 250, moved my way up to 450. Came 2nd in my regional series. And, had to work my  ass off to do so. Then. i went back to off road riding. Realised how lazy the 450 had made me. Had to get back on a 125 and start over.

So, based on my own experience. I strongly disagree. 

You know...

I was recently doing some training with my buddy. He goes: "Man, things would be different if you didn't have that Rekluse, it would be much harder for you". At first I think "ok, why? He doesn't think I know how to use a clutch?".

But later on as we continue riding and as I thought about what he said, a few things dawned on me. I started thinking why doesn't he use a Rekluse if it would be easier then? Like heck, he's a Top 5 guy in his class. If a Rekluse could guarantee him to be a consistent Top 3, why wouldn't he take it? Is he a better rider then me because he doesn't and I do? Results might say otherwise. 

And then I think, why yes, I do use a Rekluse because it DOES make things unquestionably easier. I expend less energy to do the same obstacles as him. And in turn I can also ride for much longer and faster. So why would I take my Rekluse out to go backwards?

Why would I give up my nice new FX350 to go buy a 125 so I can get "better" at riding? Why wouldn't I just ride my 350 a little more? Or lose that extra 10lbs so I can move better on the bike? Or work on a better suspension setup?

I want to do the MINIMAL amount of work required to get the MAXIMUM result.

Taking out my Rekluse, or buying a 125 to 'learn' how to ride better is like telling my boss I want to take less money per hour but work harder and longer to earn the same amount. No, I prefer to make the same amount of money per hour but willing to put in the 'overtime' (or extra training/diet/setup on the bike) to get better more money or better results. 

Everest is scattered with the dead bodies of highly motivated individuals that were willing to work hard to be 'better or the' best', let's ask them how it worked out? 

[Drop-Bear]

12 minutes ago, Hans Schmid said:

You know...

I was recently doing some training with my buddy. He goes: "Man, things would be different if you didn't have that Rekluse, it would be much harder for you". At first I think "ok, why? He doesn't think I know how to use a clutch?".

But later on as we continue riding and as I thought about what he said, a few things dawned on me. I started thinking why doesn't he use a Rekluse if it would be easier then? Like heck, he's a Top 5 guy in his class. If a Rekluse could guarantee him to be a consistent Top 3, why wouldn't he take it? Is he a better rider then me because he doesn't and I do? Results might say otherwise. 

And then I think, why yes, I do use a Rekluse because it DOES make things unquestionably easier. I expend less energy to do the same obstacles as him. And in turn I can also ride for much longer and faster. So why would I take my Rekluse out to go backwards?

Why would I give up my nice new FX350 to go buy a 125 so I can get "better" at riding? Why wouldn't I just ride my 350 a little more? Or lose that extra 10lbs so I can move better on the bike? Or work on a better suspension setup?

I want to do the MINIMAL amount of work required to get the MAXIMUM result.

Taking out my Rekluse, or buying a 125 to 'learn' how to ride better is like telling my boss I want to take less money per hour but work harder and longer to earn the same amount. No, I prefer to make the same amount of money per hour but willing to put in the 'overtime' (or extra training/diet/setup on the bike) to get better more money or better results. 

Everest is scattered with the dead bodies of highly motivated individuals that were willing to work hard to be 'better or the' best', let's ask them how it worked out? 

Cool story. But, totally Irrelevant.

How about we agree, to disagree.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Drop-Bear

[Drop-Bear]

On 8/25/2019 at 6:40 AM, KTMan88 said:

 

Just curious what everyone’s thoughts are, if more people were to take a step back from riding the big bikes like so many of us do these days and learn to ride a 125 until the thing just couldn’t go anymore, do you think it would ultimately make them better riders when stepping back up to the big leagues or would it just cause more re-learning on the bigger, completely different animal?

 

To ask that question is pretty much suggesting you're not enjoying the bike you're on atm. Otherwise, why would you ask?

What are you riding ATM?

How  much previous experience do you have?

Size and weight?

Typical style tracks you'll be riding?

Which specific skills are you wanting to improve on?

That will all help to give you a better answer to your question. There is no correct answer to your question.

Depending on the answers to those questions. People may reconsider what advice they gave you. Myself included.

Before 4T's. 125's were commonly considered to be a part of the natural progression. Before 4T's. It was uncommon to meet a rider that didn't own and ride a 125 at some stage. Starting age, or,  If starting later in life, their size and weight mostly being the determining factor. To go from an 85cc 2T, to a 250 2T was almost unheard of.

Edited August 26, 2019 by Drop-Bear

[hawaiidirtrider]

4 hours ago, Drop-Bear said:

More weight will only hinder the process. IMO.

There's a good reason 125's still exist. Going from an 85cc to a 250 4T doesn't always end well.

They serve a purpose. That purpose is progression.

Exactly..Ride and race a wide variety of dirt bikes in a variety of conditions/ terrain and you learn different techniques for different situations. A few years ago there was a trend with some local vet  riders riding and racing mostly 300 2 t  bikes to get 125’s as a second bike to get back to relearning clutch skills and just for fun. 125’s were super cheap then too. Weird thing is now is 125 2 t bikes have gone up high in resale. It’s retarded. Bikes that used to go for 1500 are going for around 3 grand now. It’s stupid. It’s sort of how some get trials bikes to improve on skills on their enduro bikes. There’s a crossover in learning . I mean everyone can just ride whatever bike they ride a whole lot and be fine and do well. There is a benefit riding a variety of bikes small through large bore and gain in experience and skills. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by hawaiidirtrider