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Tubeless setup questions

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1 hour ago, Drop-Bear said:

I've kept away  from mousses because I've heard horror stories about how hard they are to fit. If you can deal with tubes, and Tubliss, is it really any harder?

Only the first time or two. Much easier after that. Also, a couple of simple tools can make life much easier (e.g., long curved tire irons).

Edited by ktmenvy
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How long can an aggressive rider use one? As in how long do they last? They are a bit pricey, but i dnf at least twice a year for flats.



If you are concerned about losing a race because of a flat then mousses are the only choice. I don’t race very often but run mousses because they don’t go flat. I’ve had enough rides ruined by flats, and have wrecked a couple tires riding them back flat. And nope, I don’t carry stuff to fix a flat. My buddies rear tubliss went flat this past weekend, luckily we found a guy with a pump he could borrow, and luckily it ended up being the valve core just had some dirt in it, even though it was capped. Just not worth the hassle to me.

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How long can an aggressive rider use one? As in how long do they last? They are a bit pricey, but i dnf at least twice a year for flats.


I’ve got 100hrs out of mousses but I ride singletrack only, not a lot of high speed stuff, which is where mouses get hot and start to wear out. They also aren’t that expensive, $120 or so each, tubliss is about the same cost, and extra heavy duty tubes aren’t far behind. If you dnf twice a year due to flats I honestly am shocked you haven’t already switched to mousses. How much does a race cost to enter, along with all the other costs associated with racing. Mousses are cheap if you look at it from that perspective and you are chasing a championship
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2 hours ago, dittohead said:

I’ve got 100hrs out of mousses but I ride singletrack only, not a lot of high speed stuff, which is where mouses get hot and start to wear out. They also aren’t that expensive, $120 or so each, tubliss is about the same cost, and extra heavy duty tubes aren’t far behind. If you dnf twice a year due to flats 

 

I want to use a mousse but the price is what keeps me away.  HD tubes are about $30 in comparison and I have never punctured one in 6 seasons of riding.  Don't know where you are buying a mousse for $120.  I have never seen them for less than $150 and most are closer to $180. Can buy a lot of completely reliable HD tubes for that price.

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2 hours ago, dittohead said:

 


I’ve got 100hrs out of mousses but I ride singletrack only, not a lot of high speed stuff, which is where mouses get hot and start to wear out. They also aren’t that expensive, $120 or so each, tubliss is about the same cost, and extra heavy duty tubes aren’t far behind. If you dnf twice a year due to flats I honestly am shocked you haven’t already switched to mousses. How much does a race cost to enter, along with all the other costs associated with racing. Mousses are cheap if you look at it from that perspective and you are chasing a championship

You can't compare cost of full tubliss setup with mousse, most of the tubliss system last years...  The only real consumable is the HP bladder which runs about $10  and most people run them for many years before replacing.  Up front cost is high but ongoing costs compared to tubes or mousse is much cheaper.

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On 8/27/2019 at 6:15 AM, hondaman331 said:

 

I had a great race sunday until tragedy struck with another flat. There is nothing worse then not finishing a race you had the best laps in. So:

1- if i went tubeless will i get a ton of sidewall flex and will it make the weird sensation of stepping out on you like when you get a flat?

2- without air im assuming the tire doesmt bounce, what will i need to do to compensate? Just quicker rebound or does it tend to affect everything?

3- how does the bead seat if i cant pump 30psi into it?

4- how long will they last and what happens at the breaking point?

5- do they come in varying firmness or one size fits all?

6- does it wear corner tread more then if the tire was tubed?

7- will the tire do that pulsing thing like when you hit a 70ft double with a flat and realize in the air the rear is pulsing because the bead is off and hopefully we make it out of this alive first, then without hurting the rim second?

 

1- No. If the inner bladder is inflated the sidewall is still stiff and driveable while the tread area is very very soft like you would expect a flat to be. I use a mt16 on the rear and it wouldn't bother me to run it flat. If you want to fix it, take 3 min while you stuff a tire plug in. If you dont finish the race.

2- I didnt really notice any set up changes. 

3- the bead seats well. You pump the inner liner to 100 to 110 psi. The liner is like a tiny tube but all it does is hold the bead on, seal the tire, exc. There is still room in the tire. You have 2 valve stems. Because the bladder sets the bead, you would never try to seat the bead using tire pressure. 

 5- I have 100 hours on mine. They say to replace the red liner every year. It's like 20 dollars ea. 

6- Not really. If you ran drastically different pressures, maybe. I love mine.

7- I can not see you blowing a bead off with the tubliss.

      I love mine. The difference in traction was amazing.

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50 minutes ago, CDNSXV said:

I want to use a mousse but the price is what keeps me away.  HD tubes are about $30 in comparison and I have never punctured one in 6 seasons of riding.  Don't know where you are buying a mousse for $120.  I have never seen them for less than $150 and most are closer to $180. Can buy a lot of completely reliable HD tubes for that price.

American dollars. 

8 hours ago, hondaman331 said:

How long can an aggressive rider use one? As in how long do they last? They are a bit pricey, but i dnf at least twice a year for flats.

I race Best In The Desert, which is all high-speed, rocks, sand washes, singletrack/two-track...pretty much everything the desert has to offer. I have run the same mousse in my tires for nine months and numerous tires. So in my case that equates to about $13 a month. They can last over a year, depending on what you ride and how well you lube the mousse and tire. If you're not blasting 100 mph across lake beds they will easily last you that long. In my series an entry costs from $250-$550 not to mention other costs with pit support and spare parts. Mousses are cheap insurance and they are 100% worth it for me.

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58 minutes ago, CDNSXV said:

I want to use a mousse but the price is what keeps me away.  HD tubes are about $30 in comparison and I have never punctured one in 6 seasons of riding.  Don't know where you are buying a mousse for $120.  I have never seen them for less than $150 and most are closer to $180. Can buy a lot of completely reliable HD tubes for that price.

If HD tubes are working for you, I say that's great. But they don't work as well for everyone.

Mousses are available for $125 USD everywhere – in Canada and the US. Look at NitroMousses or EnduroMousses for example.

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I want to use a mousse but the price is what keeps me away.  HD tubes are about $30 in comparison and I have never punctured one in 6 seasons of riding.  Don't know where you are buying a mousse for $120.  I have never seen them for less than $150 and most are closer to $180. Can buy a lot of completely reliable HD tubes for that price.

Buy them at my local shop, that’s also $120/cdn. Tubliss is $120. I do get a discount but not sure how much. Last one I bought was was an enduro mousse. I honestly don’t care how much they cost, the price of a flat tire that ruins a ride (or a race) makes them worth it to me. So I spend maybe $250/yr on mousses, not a big deal if you break it down to cost per hr. I just want to ride my bike drama free, and I feel that mousses really help with that.

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11 minutes ago, morrison250r said:

 5- I have 100 hours on mine. They say to replace the red liner every year. It's like 20 dollars ea.

Got a link to where they say to replace the red liner every year?  Only things I've found say to inspect for damage of the sealing surface every tire change.  Can't seem to locate any other periodic replacements, although Jeff at Nuetech said in an email to me that "some people replace the HP bladder every few years"..... for what it's worth...

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You can't compare cost of full tubliss setup with mousse, most of the tubliss system last years...  The only real consumable is the HP bladder which runs about $10  and most people run them for many years before replacing.  Up front cost is high but ongoing costs compared to tubes or mousse is much cheaper.

Yup but again, you can and will get flats with tubliss so I see no point in actually using that product. I don’t care about tuning air pressure, I run soft mousses and good tires and just ride. I don’t ever feel like I’m being held back because of tire pressure, and we have pretty demanding terrain where I live.

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1 hour ago, braindead0 said:

Got a link to where they say to replace the red liner every year?  Only things I've found say to inspect for damage of the sealing surface every tire change.  Can't seem to locate any other periodic replacements, although Jeff at Nuetech said in an email to me that "some people replace the HP bladder every few years"..... for what it's worth...

     It is in the manual.  It says every year or every 100 hours. I think that is very conservative. I replaced mine at 100 hours and I couldn't find anything wrong with them or see any reason I couldn't have gone another 100 hours.

 

1 hour ago, dittohead said:


Yup but again, you can and will get flats with tubliss so I see no point in actually using that product. I don’t care about tuning air pressure, I run soft mousses and good tires and just ride. I don’t ever feel like I’m being held back because of tire pressure, and we have pretty demanding terrain where I live.

    Yes you can still get flats with tubliss. The difference is 98% of the time I can throw a plug or 5 in my tire and be back riding in less than 5 minutes without having ANY disassembly. That is worth it to me right there. 

      I found running less than 8 psi with a tube left the rear end feeling like the tire was going to roll off the rim any second. With the tubliss I can run 0 psi and still feel confident, on the back at least and still brake slide into corners. The difference in traction between 10-12 psi and 4-6 psi is incredible. 

       Tubliss is probably the number 2 mod I've done on my yz250x aside from fixing the jetting. I would never go back to using tubes. 

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6 minutes ago, morrison250r said:

     It is in the manual.  It says every year or every 100 hours. I think that is very conservative. I replaced mine at 100 hours and I couldn't find anything wrong with them or see any reason I couldn't have gone another 100 hours.

What manual?  The FAQ http://tubliss.com/tubliss/tubliss-faq/

Has this to say:

Quote

How LONG can TUBLISS LAST?

TUbliss last a very long time (maybe too long), assuming they are not damaged by accident, can last 10 times longer than tubes, or in many cases longer than the bike

 

I can find no recommendation to replace the red liner yearly...

The Info portion of the FAQ does say to replace the bladder:

Quote

Replace the inner bladder every 100 hrs or 12 months — whichever comes first

 

That makes sense, it's in essence a tube just like any other.. except much higher pressure

Edited by braindead0

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Just now, morrison250r said:

    It says it in my manual which is about 3 years old. Perhaps they revised it to inspection only.

The red liner is a $49.95 item, HP bladder $10.95 (on nuetech website).. if one had to replace both of those yearly that'd really start to add up!

They have made a lot of revisions over the years, rim tape and instructions seemed to change often.  Wouldn't surprise me if they changed recommendation there as well..

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10 minutes ago, braindead0 said:

The red liner is a $49.95 item, HP bladder $10.95 (on nuetech website).. if one had to replace both of those yearly that'd really start to add up!

They have made a lot of revisions over the years, rim tape and instructions seemed to change often.  Wouldn't surprise me if they changed recommendation there as well..

I typically re tape and put a new HP bladder in about one a year or every 4th tire or so. The red liners still look fine after 2 years, think they only need to be replaced if you nick them up installing the tires. Not sure if you really need to replace the inner tubes or not but I just do it for cheap piece of mind when i'm taking the whole thing apart anyway. 

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1 minute ago, Dirtstache 556 said:

I typically re tape and put a new HP bladder in about one a year or every 4th tire or so. The red liners still look fine after 2 years, think they only need to be replaced if you nick them up installing the tires. Not sure if you really need to replace the inner tubes or not but I just do it for cheap piece of mind when i'm taking the whole thing apart anyway. 

Good point on the tape.. The newer tape seems better than what they were using a few years ago but I'm still not impressed with the adhesive.. always seems difficult to get it to stay up the sides of the drop center..  that said I don't think it's that critical, just there to protect the bladder from spoke nipples AFAIK.

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1 minute ago, braindead0 said:

Good point on the tape.. The newer tape seems better than what they were using a few years ago but I'm still not impressed with the adhesive.. always seems difficult to get it to stay up the sides of the drop center..  that said I don't think it's that critical, just there to protect the bladder from spoke nipples AFAIK.

    The new tape is much better. It says inspect the liner when replacing the bladder every year/100 hours.

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3 minutes ago, braindead0 said:

Good point on the tape.. The newer tape seems better than what they were using a few years ago but I'm still not impressed with the adhesive.. always seems difficult to get it to stay up the sides of the drop center..  that said I don't think it's that critical, just there to protect the bladder from spoke nipples AFAIK.

Yea it doesn't need to seal air or anything, but think it also helps keep water and crap from getting under the bladder 

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I'm still using the same bladder's and HP tubes from about 7/8 yrs ago (Gold billet rim locks). But, only ride small bore 2T's.

I don't use any tires that I can't use without running zero psi. 

A mousse is going to be heavier. I'd say, and have a lot more un-sprung weight/Inertia.

After thinking about it. And taking into account I only ride small bore 2T's. Think I'll stick with Tubliss.

Edited by Drop-Bear

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