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2019 KTM 500 EXC-F Desmog

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Sooooo,

I've decided to de smog my bike. Doesn't seem that difficult. I was wondering will this effect my carb fuel/air ratio at all?

I want the bike to run cooler ( I hope de smog will do this) But at this time don't want to spend $800.00 or whatever on a aftermarket ECU.

What do you guys think?

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36 minutes ago, KTMarcos said:

Sooooo,

I've decided to de smog my bike. Doesn't seem that difficult. I was wondering will this effect my carb fuel/air ratio at all?

I want the bike to run cooler ( I hope de smog will do this) But at this time don't want to spend $800.00 or whatever on a aftermarket ECU. 

What do you guys think?

Do not desmog unless you have a fueling device or aftermarket ECU to put fuel back in the system.

Edited by Burnrider

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38 minutes ago, KTMarcos said:

Sooooo,

I've decided to de smog my bike. Doesn't seem that difficult. I was wondering will this effect my carb fuel/air ratio at all?

I want the bike to run cooler ( I hope de smog will do this) But at this time don't want to spend $800.00 or whatever on a aftermarket ECU.

What do you guys think?

I think you have some reading to do. 

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Sooooo,
I've decided to de smog my bike. Doesn't seem that difficult. I was wondering will this effect my carb fuel/air ratio at all?
I want the bike to run cooler ( I hope de smog will do this) But at this time don't want to spend $800.00 or whatever on a aftermarket ECU.
What do you guys think?



The Official 2017 500 EXC De-Smog How-To
https://thumpertalk.com/applications/tapatalk/index.php?/topic/1217889-The-Official-2017-500-EXC-De-Smog-How-To

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It depends on what you consider to be part of the “smog” equipment.

Evap - Removing or simply disabling the Evap system, which includes the solenoid by the front sprocket and the charcoal canister in the frame, will not affect the performance of the bike at all and will not require you to make changes to the fueling.

SAS - Disabling or removing the Secondary Air injection system at the exhaust outlet of the head will also not affect performance (although it will help get rid of deceleration popping) or require that you alter the fueling.

Those are the only two parts I really consider to be part of the SMOG system because both are anti pollution devices. Evap controls gas vapors trying to escape from the tank to the atmosphere and SAS helps burn Unburnt fuel before it goes out the exhaust. Why even get rid of this stuff? I did it to simplify things and declutter the bike. There have also been reports of that solenoid going bad and frying the ECU.

Now if you consider the reeds in the intake to be part of the smog equipment then yes, removing them will require you to do something to add more fuel. Same goes for the screens in the exhaust. Removing either or both of those things allow the engine to use more air, therefore needing more fuel.

My opinion is the bike runs lean in 100% stock form and you need something to richen it up whether you plan to mod it or not. Do nothing except add fuel and the bike will run cooler, no need to remove smog equipment or anything else. You can do this with a 200 dollar tuner from JD. But if you add the tuner you might as well pull the reeds and the screens to get more performance. 

And no, you don’t have a carb. 

Edited by Hertz
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Thanks Steve the snakes I did read part of that thread. there's 24 pages.

I will take the time and read it all!

Thanks also Hertz !

I know this machine does not have a conventional carburetor , that comment is a risk you take when you inform people of your lack of knowledge.( although I do see the humor in it 🙂

What you are describing is exactly what I intended to do but I will look into the JD tuner as well. All I seen was The Vortex and it seems overkill for my purposes. I do a lot of trail riding and don't ride nearly as hard as I used to. But even in stock form this bike is far more powerful and better handling than the XR  that I was used to riding. I made modifications to the carburetor on the XR's to make it perform like it is supposed to. Which is what I will do to this one as well.

Edited by KTMarcos
Just add an additional comment was all
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21 minutes ago, KTMarcos said:

Thanks Steve the snakes I did read part of that thread. there's 24 pages.

I will take the time and read it all!

Thanks also Hertz !

I know this machine does not have a conventional carburetor , that comment is a risk you take when you inform people of your lack of knowledge.( although I do see the humor in it 🙂

What you are describing is exactly what I intended to do but I will look into the JD tuner as well. All I seen was The Vortex and it seems overkill for my purposes. I do a lot of trail riding and don't ride nearly as hard as I used to. But even in stock form this bike is far more powerful and better handling than the XR  that I was used to riding. I made modifications to the carburetor on the XR's to make it perform like it is supposed to. Which is what I will do to this one as well.

There is nothing wrong with the JD tuner and derestricting for your purpose. After a JD tuner you should remove the reeds as they can break and fall into the intake causing damage.  

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don't even waste time or money , do the right thing . get the vortex and do a proper de-smog , remove the reeds , the pipe and muffler doesn't matter and change the gearing and tires  unless you ride mostly street . the bike you've been riding was a turd compared to the transformation , you will be happy

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The JD Tuner is absolutely not a waste of money, and is 100% effective in getting the fueling where it needs to be.

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I smell another Vortex vs JD tuner debate coming.  For somebody that isn’t trying to eek every last .1hp or thinks they will get some magic perfect powerband a Jd Tuner is very good and changes the bike and has plenty of adjustability.  Ask yourself is $500 worth the last small bit of differences.  If you want 98% of the performance and offer simple adjustability the JD Tuner is very hard to beat.  That extra $500 can go towards better fork valving which will make a much more noticeable difference.  

 

Anyhow be prepared for the can of worms that will now come.  TT loves oil, tire, and JD vs Vortex threads.  

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To kick this debate off, I have an opinion on JD vs Vortex that I don't believe it too often expressed.

I bet, (I have not used a JD) there is not that big of a performance difference between the Vortex and the JD.  Yes I am sure there is a difference but I expect I couldn't feel the difference or if I could it would be minor.

Having said that, I have a Vortex.

This brings me to my point.  A major benefit I see with the Vortex is that you are not adding a complication to your motorcycle.  You are not adding a point, or multiple points of failure.  With the Vortex, you replace (swap) the ECU.  Mechanically, it's , more or less, plug and play.  It is the same factory component design.  The JD is adding a computer to the bikes fueling system.  On top of that you have to tap into the fuel injector wires adding yet another point of failure.  Now I'm not sure if this is a plug or wire taps...  Cutting and soldering would be the most robust method (I bet most do not do this).  Now I am not saying the JD is unreliable.  I am saying, FROM A SYSTEMS STANDPOINT, the JD has more opportunity for failure than the Vortex. 

Just something to consider.

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1 hour ago, Dare Devil Diablo said:

This brings me to my point.  A major benefit I see with the Vortex is that you are not adding a complication to your motorcycle.  You are not adding a point, or multiple points of failure.  With the Vortex, you replace (swap) the ECU.  Mechanically, it's , more or less, plug and play.  It is the same factory component design.  The JD is adding a computer to the bikes fueling system.  On top of that you have to tap into the fuel injector wires adding yet another point of failure.  Now I'm not sure if this is a plug or wire taps...  Cutting and soldering would be the most robust method (I bet most do not do this).  Now I am not saying the JD is unreliable.  I am saying, FROM A SYSTEMS STANDPOINT, the JD has more opportunity for failure than the Vortex. 

I do hear this a lot, but it's a concern that isn't substantiated. Piggyback tuners are not new - we've been using them on streetbikes since 1999 or so. Any component can fail, but if your JD Tuner fails, it's an easy trailside fix to bypass it. If your ECU fails, you cannot fix it. I'll bet they have very similar failure rates, like any electronic item (<1%).

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Look the issue is the guy posted he isn’t expecting too much and the stock bike was fine for his riding. 

I would not want a piggyback tuner. I expect no compromise for my riding. But that’s me and not him. There should be no discussion from the posters usage of his bike. 

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30 minutes ago, jrodicus100 said:

I do hear this a lot, but it's a concern that isn't substantiated. Piggyback tuners are not new - we've been using them on streetbikes since 1999 or so. Any component can fail, but if your JD Tuner fails, it's an easy trailside fix to bypass it. If your ECU fails, you cannot fix it. I'll bet they have very similar failure rates, like any electronic item (<1%).

The concern is real.  There is substantive proof that this is a concern.  Empirically you can see that if you have 2 things with x failure rate that are required for operation and you remove one you have made your system more reliable.

Again, I am not saying the JD is not reliable.  I am not saying the JD is not the right choice for the OP.  I am informing the OP of a reason I went in the direction I did.

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1 hour ago, Dare Devil Diablo said:

The concern is real.  There is substantive proof that this is a concern.  Empirically you can see that if you have 2 things with x failure rate that are required for operation and you remove one you have made your system more reliable.

Again, I am not saying the JD is not reliable.  I am not saying the JD is not the right choice for the OP.  I am informing the OP of a reason I went in the direction I did.

I completely agree with you on this. Another component complicates the system and increases the chance of something failing. There are more electronics, more connections, etc.

 I have a JD. Yes, more components but I think the likely hood of failure is still low so you need to ask wether it warrants the 500 dollar difference. The Vortex includes ignition timing improvements also which the JD does not but again, what’s that worth to you. As you stated earlier, performance is probably very similar.

Like @jrodicus100 stated, if your JD fails on the trail you can unplug it and get home, not true with the vortex.

All that said, i honestly only have the JD over the vortex because of availability earlier this year, I’ll likely replace my JD with a vortex next year because of simplicity and I do think it’s superior to the piggyback tuner. Do I really think it’s worth the extra cost? No not really but if I did everything based on dollars I’d still be riding a WR250R. 

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