Hard Start 2004 Honda CRF250r

[HelpI'mstumped]

Hello All,

 

First post on this site so hopefully I can get some help here. I know it's a older bike but i just bought it this summer love the bike just super stumped lol hence the profile name.

    So when I bought the bike it was always hard to start after sitting over night or for more then about 1hr but I could get it running by the kick start after alot of kicking. As the summer went on it got to the point where the only way to start it was via bump start. So I had the bike pretty well rebuilt....New Valves, New Springs, New Seats, Full carbon build up clean on head, Phoned the cyclinder, New Piston, New rod & Bearings, New seals all threw out, Full cab Clean, And i'm sure I missed something.

    My mechanic did all the work for me so this is second had info but as for parts I know as I paid for it lol. There is no leakage on the valves, The valves are Shimmed to factory spec, Carb is set right according to factory and yet I could not get it to kick over. So I we checked all electrical part and they are reading fine according to honda specs. Finally I got mad and said F..k it lets try bump start and we got it started but had to adjust the idle to get a nice smooth running engine. After that I could kick it over 1 or 2 kick and she start beautifully. Took it out the next day and had the same starting issue could not kick over but once I bump started it it was good all day.

    I ended up have a issue with the oil from trans side going to crank so it is currently getting that issue fixed. My question is what have people had luck with getting the bikes to start fairly easy? I have read the post on here and get alot of mixed responces so thought I would create my own thread so i can have it all on one.

 

Sorry for the long post but felt I should give all info off the hop

Cheers

 

 

[lakeportmike]

sounds like bad valves to me. I know you said they're good but you also said the motor was completely rebuilt but... now you have a bad crank seal???

[HelpI'mstumped]

yeah everything is new in the top end and is in honda's spec. the oil part was just a extra and yeah we believe it was a faulty balance shaft seal. Just super stumped as to the reason it is hard to start but once i have it started it kicks 1-2 kick.

[Garage_Dog]

What year is the bike?

What is your starting routine for kick starting the bike?  (choke, no choke, throttle pumps etc...?)

 

[HelpI'mstumped]

Bike is a 2004 Honda CRF250R

 

I have tried just about everything. Tried choke on TDC and kick-- Choke off TDC kick-- 2 throttle blips TDC kick-- 2 throttle blips TDC choke kick-- choke off 4 kicks tdc 2 bilps choke kick. My understanding is that is should kick over with just the choke on after sitting. I always shut the fuel off during transport or sitting in the garage. It's just weird why that first start of the day or if left for some time is hard with the kick starter but i can take it to a hill and bump start it no problem right off the truck after sitting for a few days

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by HelpI'mstumped

[Bryan II]

Try manually draining the carb bowl after you put it away next time and only refill it when you're ready to start it. My 2004 CRF450R hated cold starting even with valves in spec, but draining and refilled the bowl from the tank worked. Go figger.

[HelpI'mstumped]

Can I do that by shutting the fuel off and tipping it to the side let the fuel drain?

 

[Bryan II]

3 minutes ago, HelpI'mstumped said:

Can I do that by shutting the fuel off and tipping it to the side let the fuel drain?

 

It's been a long time, but I believe you can drain the bowl by opening this screw with the petcock off:

[Garage_Dog]

18 minutes ago, HelpI'mstumped said:

Bike is a 2004 Honda CRF250R

 

I have tried just about everything. Tried choke on TDC and kick-- Choke off TDC kick-- 2 throttle blips TDC kick-- 2 throttle blips TDC choke kick-- choke off 4 kicks tdc 2 bilps choke kick. My understanding is that is should kick over with just the choke on after sitting. I always shut the fuel off during transport or sitting in the garage. It's just weird why that first start of the day or if left for some time is hard with the kick starter but i can take it to a hill and bump start it no problem right off the truck after sitting for a few days

 

I have an 04 and an 08.  They have different starting routines.  If it doesn't fire in 5 or 6 kicks, repeat the routine below. 

04 is usually 2 throttle pumps (turned all the way and at med speed) and choke it.  No throttle at all (hand off the grip). Nice easy slow kick from TDC. 
08 is the same except I have to hold the throttle steady about 1/8 open.  Good hard kick from TDC.

*If it below 60F, then I use 4 throttle pumps. 

Other things could contribute... Has your jetting been messed with?  Pilot jet, starter jet and passages clean?  Do you have worn parts such as the needle/jet, slide rubber gasket.

What does your mechanic say is the problem?

Edited September 26, 2019 by Garage_Dog

[HelpI'mstumped]

So he thinks its with the carb but he has taken it fully apart and cleaned everything. There was one dirty jet that is now clean. I'm assuming that the jets a all good as he never mentioned replacing any of them but where is the starter jet? maybe something wrong there

[Garage_Dog]

35 minutes ago, HelpI'mstumped said:

So he thinks its with the carb but he has taken it fully apart and cleaned everything. There was one dirty jet that is now clean. I'm assuming that the jets a all good as he never mentioned replacing any of them but where is the starter jet? maybe something wrong there

(thinking.....)  Usually a hard starting problem when the engine is cold but starts fine when warm is a lean condition.  (Or start up routine error - every bike is a little different)

It could be a partially blocked pilot jet or passage that it screws into or possibly the fuel mixture screw needs to be turned out.  Blocked starter jet...?

Other guesses (and not as likely..) old spark plug, leaky float valve.

 

Edited September 26, 2019 by Garage_Dog

[450xoldguy]

My son has an 06 crf250r with the same problem, winter time it's a bitch, tried a JD jet kit which helped a ton, I found on ours half of a turn on the throttle kick easy thru, 1 full turn and keep your hands off the throttle and get the kicker tdc then a good boot and it fires, unless someone plays with the throttle during unloading!

[jayc250x]

2 hours ago, HelpI'mstumped said:

Can I do that by shutting the fuel off and tipping it to the side let the fuel drain?

Probably - that used to the secret trick to get my XR400 to start.  I have a low-hour '06 250X - it has e-start (thank god).  Once when my battery was junk, I rode it with just the kick start.  It did start right up, but I rode about 5 minutes and shut it off.  I could not get it to start again - me and friend kicked the thing for easily 20 minutes with not even a sputter.  I then pushed it onto a road, pushed it up to a jog, then jumped on and bump-started it - fired up and flew into a wheelie instantly.

[onoffroad]

Are you sure the needle and seat is not overfilling the carb and gas is running in crank case? Push starting is a quick fix for that.

[HelpI'mstumped]

1 minute ago, onoffroad said:

Are you sure the needle and seat is not overfilling the carb and gas is running in crank case? Push starting is a quick fix for that.

yes no gas in oil at all

[Garage_Dog]

After you kick and kick and kick, is the plug wet or dry?

[HelpI'mstumped]

2 minutes ago, Garage_Dog said:

After you kick and kick and kick, is the plug wet or dry?

i don't remember 100% but if i recall it wasn't super wet but a bit wet.  

[Rivered]

Long time lurker here...

My 2008 250r took me about a week and some jetting for altitude to get it starting reliably and it was still crazy process (but it worked).

Cold bike, choke, 3 full throttle pumps. If didnt start after 3rd kick - bury the throttle and kick it- would start @ 2 kicks max.

Warm started like a champ-

Good luck cracking the code on your 2004!

[HelpI'mstumped]

1 minute ago, Rivered said:

Long time lurker here...

My 2008 250r took me about a week and some jetting for altitude to get it starting reliably and it was still crazy process (but it worked).

Cold bike, choke, 3 full throttle pumps. If didnt start after 3rd kick - bury the throttle and kick it- would start @ 2 kicks max.

Warm started like a champ-

Good luck cracking the code on your 2004!

yeah the code lol wish Honda had the codes for each lol hahaha

[Jacob Ripplinger]

My 2005 crf250r is kinda like that.  It is all in the routine.  Do it right and it fires up after 1 or 2 kicks.  But if you just hop on and kick it will never start.  Mine I always need to get past the whole compression stroke.  Then kick.  Rotate real slowly it will get tough for a half a kick stroke then you'll feel the decomp lever bump and a little more of the compression stroke.  Then finally all the compression stroke leaves and you're ready to kick.  To me it sounds like your jetting is off slightly.  In the carb there is a plate that does wear, or can be put in upside down, or some carb kits don't include the gasket for.  But it might be letting extra air get by.  Does your idle hang, even slightly?