Talk to me about “no toil filter oil”

[Bagger300xc]

Hi guys, Right. I’ve used the red no toil filter oil for years and am only recently on my new 2019 300xc starting to see issues with it, my 2006 250exc was fine. 
 

basically this is the 3rd time now I’ve taken the filter off to swap it for my wash cover to find a brown stain on the inside of the filter and also a coating of dried dirt on the intake boot (I clean this boot religiously before new filters get fitted) 

 

on a dry day the filters spotless inside and I’m only seing this on wet days when there’s lots of puddles about. I’m thinking that water is splashing into the airbox onto the filter and that the no toil oil just doesn’t stop water getting past? 
 

Has anyone had trouble with no toil oil on a wet day? 
 

Thanks 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Bagger300xc

[Dirtstache 556]

I haven't had any issues like that with mine, but I with their oil being more water soluble I could see that potentially happening. I ended up switching to the Pro Filter pre-oiled "disposable" filters for less than $10 each via a dealer buddy of mine so I can just toss and replace when they get dirty. 

[Turboloader]

8 hours ago, Bagger300xc said:

Hi guys, Right. I’ve used the red no toil filter oil for years and am only recently on my new 2019 300xc starting to see issues with it, my 2006 250exc was fine. 
 

basically this is the 3rd time now I’ve taken the filter off to swap it for my wash cover to find a brown stain on the inside of the filter and also a coating of dried dirt on the intake boot (I clean this boot religiously before new filters get fitted) 

 

on a dry day the filters spotless inside and I’m only seing this on wet days when there’s lots of puddles about. I’m thinking that water is splashing into the airbox onto the filter and that the no toil oil just doesn’t stop water getting past? 
 

Has anyone had trouble with no toil oil on a wet day? 
 

Thanks 

Oh crap man, I just slapped one on my CR! The oils are bio-degradable so you might see some unusual occourances in your air box. I would use the No-Toil cleaning and re charge kit that you purchase seperatly, and just clean the sealing lip carefully. I usually seal the filter mating surface with grease to no dirt sneeks in my air boot....

[CDNSXV]

Used to use No Toil but the oil is so thin it all ends up at the bottom of the filter foam after a while.  I went to a stickier oil because of that.

[ricky racer]

I ride in the PNW all winter and have never had a problem in the 11 years I've been using the stuff. I like the red better.

[SS109]

Maybe think about how you can make your air box a little less permeable to water infiltration? I've on the red No Toil years with zero issues. I think my Gasser has a horribly designed air box for keeping water out and I haven't had any issue even in races where I've been in water that was above the foot pegs and lots of other standing water.

[dittohead]

Do you use rim grease? Sounds like you don’t if you are getting water/dirt stains past the sealing ring.
I’ve been using notoil oil/cleaner/rim grease for years on several different bikes, in all conditions with no issues whatsoever

[The Inquisitor]

Ya, I live in the PWN never had any issues using the red oil when its wet. I don't use filter grease since IMO the screw holding the filter/cage into the airbox in my CRF250R does a good job of sealing the filter.

IMO I don't think straight water on its own effects the oil but that's just my 2 cents and you should be dealing with water getting into the air box and filter seal anyway.

@No Toil Industriesis an insider on TT so may they can comment

 

[Bagger300xc]

Thanks for all the reply’s. Yes I use rim grease. And I am the most careful person ever when doing my filters, to the point my friends take the piss out of me for being so particular. 
 

Il get a picture tomorrow but the dirty mark seems to be a curved shape of which I think matches the breathing gap where you would put your fingers to pull the airbox side cover off, this is on the 19 300xc if anyone has one? there are two variables that I can think of but please give me your opinions on this. 

1: I trimmed the plastic flap back in order to let the engine breath better 

2: I oiled the filter but didn’t ride when I planned in the end so the filter sat on the bike for 10 days before I went out. 
 

I really love the ease of no toil but if it lets water through it can’t be any good. 

[Bagger300xc]

Also the trouble is these newer ktms don’t breath well as it is, closing up areas water gets in is going to suffocate the engine even more. 
 

my 2006 exc had gaps all over the airbox And would always be a lot dirtier inside than this 2019 after a ride, but I never ever seen dirt pass the filter on the older bike. I don’t get it. 
 

I don’t believe the issue to be water getting into the airbox, this is going to happen. The issue is that it’s getting past the filter 

Edited October 7, 2019 by Bagger300xc

[nots0much]

My only experience with "no toil" is their rim grease for the filter cage. Complete shit. Looks like rotten, curdled milk and feels like humus. It separtes, too. Gross and of dubious utility.

Petroleum products all the way!

Edited October 7, 2019 by sorbales

[dittohead]

Also the trouble is these newer ktms don’t breath well as it is, closing up areas water gets in is going to suffocate the engine even more. 
 
my 2006 exc had gaps all over the airbox And would always be a lot dirtier inside than this 2019 after a ride, but I never ever seen dirt pass the filter on the older bike. I don’t get it. 
 
I don’t believe the issue to be water getting into the airbox, this is going to happen. The issue is that it’s getting past the filter 

My bike is a 17 250xc, not sure if it’s exactly the same as the 19. I’ve serviced the filter many times in the 140hrs I’ve put on this bike, with no trace of water/dirt ever getting past the seal ring. I also cut the flap off the air box cover to let in more air. I ride all year round, in the pnw, so all kinds of weather conditions. Don’t ride through deep water if it can be avoided though. Never an issue. Is the filter cage warped or not fitting well?

[No Toil Industries]

18 hours ago, Bagger300xc said:

Hi guys, Right. I’ve used the red no toil filter oil for years and am only recently on my new 2019 300xc starting to see issues with it, my 2006 250exc was fine. 
 

basically this is the 3rd time now I’ve taken the filter off to swap it for my wash cover to find a brown stain on the inside of the filter and also a coating of dried dirt on the intake boot (I clean this boot religiously before new filters get fitted) 

 

on a dry day the filters spotless inside and I’m only seing this on wet days when there’s lots of puddles about. I’m thinking that water is splashing into the airbox onto the filter and that the no toil oil just doesn’t stop water getting past? 
 

Has anyone had trouble with no toil oil on a wet day? 
 

Thanks 

This sounds like an issue within the air-box itself. As we coincidentally have 2019 300xc in our possession as well, and have had yet to see this. Typically if a filter pulls dirt, its very noticeable both inside and out. Honda experienced a similar issue back in 2002, where the air boot was prone to leaking. We'd highly recommend using a grease to help seal the air box together if this such issue is happening. 

 

As for riding through water with No-Toil, dont fret! Just ask Jimmy Decotis! Or,  a simple at home experiment can help relive any worries. Simply put a small amount of filter oil on your hand and let air dry. From there run under the sink to "try" oil off from hand. The only  No-Toil filter oil can be broken down is with our cleaner. When a dirty filter meets our cleaning solution in warm water, a natural reaction occurs changing the oil into soap. Something water alone cannot do. We support athletes all over the globe that put our products through the harshest environments, and No-Toil always withstands the test! 

[Bagger300xc]

6 hours ago, dittohead said:

My bike is a 17 250xc, not sure if it’s exactly the same as the 19. I’ve serviced the filter many times in the 140hrs I’ve put on this bike, with no trace of water/dirt ever getting past the seal ring. I also cut the flap off the air box cover to let in more air. I ride all year round, in the pnw, so all kinds of weather conditions. Don’t ride through deep water if it can be avoided though. Never an issue. Is the filter cage warped or not fitting well?

Again it’s not coming in through the sealing ring, it’s passing through filter 

[Drop-Bear]

Funnel Web filter, and Motorex spray on filter oil FTW!

[somethingnuw]

8 hours ago, Bagger300xc said:

Thanks for all the reply’s. Yes I use rim grease. And I am the most careful person ever when doing my filters, to the point my friends take the piss out of me for being so particular. 
 

Il get a picture tomorrow but the dirty mark seems to be a curved shape of which I think matches the breathing gap where you would put your fingers to pull the airbox side cover off, this is on the 19 300xc if anyone has one? there are two variables that I can think of but please give me your opinions on this. 

1: I trimmed the plastic flap back in order to let the engine breath better 

2: I oiled the filter but didn’t ride when I planned in the end so the filter sat on the bike for 10 days before I went out. 
 

I really love the ease of no toil but if it lets water through it can’t be any good. 

I had an issue with dust getting passed my 2007 450x filter...turns out it was my oversized mits n sausage fingers I couldn’t seat the filter properly, it was a real PITA...switched to a loud mouth air box ...seriously best thing ever...look into it...if it’s not the oil your using it’s a worthy investment....

 

[dittohead]

Again it’s not coming in through the sealing ring, it’s passing through filter 

How much rain/water are you riding through? Is the filter compromised at all? If you are getting water sitting on the filter then I could see it possibly running through the filter, bringing dirt along with it. Might just have to switch to that nasty sticky stuff to keep moisture out.

[Bagger300xc]

12 hours ago, No Toil Industries said:

This sounds like an issue within the air-box itself. As we coincidentally have 2019 300xc in our possession as well, and have had yet to see this. Typically if a filter pulls dirt, its very noticeable both inside and out. Honda experienced a similar issue back in 2002, where the air boot was prone to leaking. We'd highly recommend using a grease to help seal the air box together if this such issue is happening. 

 

As for riding through water with No-Toil, dont fret! Just ask Jimmy Decotis! Or,  a simple at home experiment can help relive any worries. Simply put a small amount of filter oil on your hand and let air dry. From there run under the sink to "try" oil off from hand. The only  No-Toil filter oil can be broken down is with our cleaner. When a dirty filter meets our cleaning solution in warm water, a natural reaction occurs changing the oil into soap. Something water alone cannot do. We support athletes all over the globe that put our products through the harshest environments, and No-Toil always withstands the test! 

Thanks for the reply I will post a picture later of what’s happened. I do grease the rim before fitting filter. Also the dirt is apparent on the inside middle area of the filter not around the edges!! The dirt has 100% passed through the oil and the filter.

[No Toil Industries]

3 hours ago, Bagger300xc said:

Thanks for the reply I will post a picture later of what’s happened. I do grease the rim before fitting filter. Also the dirt is apparent on the inside middle area of the filter not around the edges!! The dirt has 100% passed through the oil and the filter.

Please contact us directly and we'd be happy to help resolve the matter further! 877-668-6451 or customerservice@notoil.com

[The Inquisitor]

4 hours ago, Bagger300xc said:

Thanks for the reply I will post a picture later of what’s happened. I do grease the rim before fitting filter. Also the dirt is apparent on the inside middle area of the filter not around the edges!! The dirt has 100% passed through the oil and the filter.

Ya I'd like to see some pics of the air filter installed, dirt issue etc.

I honestly say I have ever noticed dirt inside the air filter when I've removed it to clean but where I live/ ride it can go from extremely dusty in the summers to monsoon rains with deep puddles and muddy/snotty dirt in the fall/winter/spring.

I've posted these pics a number of times and as example of my CFR250R setup with No Toil red.

FYI - No Toil customer is excellent ?