I am eating my words- oil injection is failing on one bike

[shrubitup]

8 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

..........ummmm, the Beta OI system reduces the number of running engines, hence reduces the number of Beta engines running the OI? ?

thereby reducing overall oil consumption.

[highmarker]

8 hours ago, redhurricane said:

Wife's bike was exhibiting very little tail pipe spooge last weekend on a ride, so I decided to go through the TPS and oil pump tests. Found that the TPS was slightly off from spec so I adjusted to the high end of the oiling rate. tested the oil pump flow rate and found very low flow. Tested the resistance at the pump,

 

how did flow rate compare to the spec?   

[redhurricane]

28 minutes ago, highmarker said:

how did flow rate compare to the spec?   

Half the suggested flow rate. 

[Ud_Luz]

3 minutes ago, redhurricane said:

Half the suggested flow rate. 

Interesting.

[redhurricane]

1 minute ago, Ud_Luz said:

Interesting.

Yep, and oil pump resistance passed, as did voltage to the pump. 

[jentzschman]

9 hours ago, redhurricane said:

Wife's bike was exhibiting very little tail pipe spooge last weekend on a ride, so I decided to go through the TPS and oil pump tests. Found that the TPS was slightly off from spec so I adjusted to the high end of the oiling rate. tested the oil pump flow rate and found very low flow. Tested the resistance at the pump, 18 ohms which is in spec. voltage at the plug with bike running is 13.8, same as what the battery was seeing at idle.

I'm pulling it, and going premix. When I bought the 3 bikes, I had every intention of believing in the system, but said I would scrap it on all bikes if one bike failed. So here I am. My original likes for oil injection was the ability to fill up anywhere, and not be reliant on premix. I've had no real circumstance where I actually did that in the last year, and I can always carry a small container of oil with me on days I know we are doing large mileage. 

Oh well, at least I caught it before it ate a piston and cylinder. Now I can pull the trigger on 3 trail tech voyagers and ditch the stock computer. 

 

Are these procedures in the bike manual, if not, could you share how you tested these parts. Makes me want to check mine now. 

[mrdsee]

7 hours ago, Hammy-56 said:

this makes me sad.

and slightly concerned...

we like having the possible benefit of being able to fill up at a gas station on a "long" ride. (haven't done this once yet).

I suppose a larger tank might be a solution if I delete the OI.

Plus we used to carry small bottles that held enough oil for 1 gal to make it easy to figure out at the gas station.

[Ud_Luz]

20 minutes ago, redhurricane said:

Yep, and oil pump resistance passed, as did voltage to the pump. 

My oiling system is infallible.  

Actually I just look at the side of the oil bottle and dump around 14 ounces into around 5 gallons which is around 45 to 50:1 depending on how much gas I can get in old Blitz gas jugs, no reason to waste money on gimmicks. It's NEVER failed. ? 

[highmarker]

18 minutes ago, redhurricane said:

Half the suggested flow rate. 

Were you logging the fuel and oil use, just curious ?  my friends has been averaging ~70:1 in almost trials type riding, which seems ok to me.

[Beta300REcat]

20 minutes ago, redhurricane said:

Half the suggested flow rate. 

51 minutes ago, shrubitup said:

thereby reducing overall oil consumption.

[redhurricane]

38 minutes ago, jentzschman said:

Are these procedures in the bike manual, if not, could you share how you tested these parts. Makes me want to check mine now. 

http://www.hillbillyhobbies.com/atc/Beta/Oil injection guide version 2[1639].pdf

[Hammy.]

45 minutes ago, mrdsee said:

Plus we used to carry small bottles that held enough oil for 1 gal to make it easy to figure out at the gas station.

yep...thats the plan.

[UPSWR450]

8 hours ago, shrubitup said:

Typically if a ride is longer than 55 miles, there ain't no gas station around. If there were, I would absolutely glug glug it. Pack some oil, dump in tank. If you knew that you'd need two gallons of fuel then bring eight ounces of oil. Dump in, add gas, go ride. Super advanced methods! 

You run your beta at 32:1? Just wondered because I have a friend that runs hers at 50:1 possibly close to 60. 

[shrubitup]

45 minutes ago, UPSWR450 said:

You run your beta at 32:1? Just wondered because I have a friend that runs hers at 50:1 possibly close to 60. 

Depends on the oil viscosity. Better oils I'll use less like 50:1. Amsoil gets 32:1 for me.

[Eric72]

1 hour ago, UPSWR450 said:

You run your beta at 32:1? Just wondered because I have a friend that runs hers at 50:1 possibly close to 60. 

I was running those type of ratios with motul 800 and getting a lot of drool. That was with warmer temps being 70`s to 80. The last couple tanks the temps have been in the 50 to 60 . Been running between 44:1 and 50:1 and i have noticed the drool to be decreasing. My thought is i will probably end up at 44:1. The bike is running as well as ever, i am still getting a little hesitation off idle. I think dropping the NECJ needle to the second position will cure that 

[Matthew Larson]

I was running those type of ratios with motul 800 and getting a lot of drool. That was with warmer temps being 70`s to 80. The last couple tanks the temps have been in the 50 to 60 . Been running between 44:1 and 50:1 and i have noticed the drool to be decreasing. My thought is i will probably end up at 44:1. The bike is running as well as ever, i am still getting a little hesitation off idle. I think dropping the NECJ needle to the second position will cure that 

The flash point of 800 is significantly higher than 710. More than double. You will spooge much more using 800.

[Eric72]

6 minutes ago, Matthew Larson said:

 

The flash point of 800 is significantly higher than 710. More than double. You will spooge much more using 800.

 

Yes i have been made aware of this. I was using the 710 after i removed the OI and was getting just as much spooge. I was getting smoke with the 710, but not with the 800. Since the OI at removal at 10 hours (55 know),i have played with both oils and i seem to like the 800 the best.

[wwguy]

19 hours ago, redhurricane said:

Keep in mind the bike has 100 hours on it and that is the service interval for the pump. replacement pump is $100, delete kit is $117. 

No need to buy the OI delete kit.  All you have to do is cap the oil inlet port on the intake manifold with a vacuum cap and zip tie and remove (or cut) the OI failure warning light wire near the speedo.  The TPS sensor doesn't need to be disconnected or physically removed from the carb.  The only advantage to removing it from the carb is to experience slightly less resistance when turning the throttle.

 

[BetaPete]

There are a LOT of OI failure stories if you start searching, kind of alarming...  I installed the delete kit at about 10hrs on my bike for peace of mind.

But why are you guys mixing so rich? After finishing up the 710 I had from purchasing my bike (which I was mixing at 60:1) I switched to AMS Saber and am mixing at 80:1. At 100 hrs now and it runs perfect.

I also converted the oil tank to a radiator catch tank, have never boiled my bike but the radiator is always 100% topped up.

 

[wwguy]

21 hours ago, redhurricane said:

Found that the TPS was slightly off from spec so I adjusted to the high end of the oiling rate. tested the oil pump flow rate and found very low flow.

 

13 hours ago, highmarker said:

how did flow rate compare to the spec?   

 

12 hours ago, redhurricane said:

Half the suggested flow rate. 

Aside from being physically fragile, the major weaknesses in Beta's OI design are that 1) it's an open-loop control system, meaning that the ECU can't monitor actual oil flow and adjust output accordingly, and 2) there's no accurate and repeatable method to measure oil flow, much less adjust or otherwise calibrate it.  By "accurate" I mean x volume over y time at z RPM.  By "repeatable" I mean that the same test can be done periodically with reasonable expectation of comparably accurate results. All Beta offers, even for the dealers, is the hokey and very unscientific "flow test" shown below.