Headlight and other lights blink along with turn signal and engine loses power.

[Soulprogression]

So here’s a tricky one I’m hoping to fix easily. 

I noticed since getting the 04 wr250f basket case I got back together and running that it has some strange bugs. 

The PO wired an aftermarket street legal light kit and everything works except for a few quirks. 

When running if I turn on the turn signals the headlight also blinks with them. I did replace the relay for turns recently when it burnt out.

Also

When riding and turn signals are on the bike will lose power if I throw a load on it  

I think it does this too with the headlight on like the accessories are drawing power from the motor

Lastly the battery keeps getting drawn down while bike is sitting and off. I have to kick it over and then after riding it for a bit it will work off electric start so it’s obviously charging itself

 

ok thanks! Max

 

 

 

[motodave289]

Would charge and have battery load tested. Then check all grounds.

[Soulprogression]

Gonna have to find someone with that tester. It’s fully charged now and still blinks the head and tail light when turn signals are on. However fully charged when riding even with head light on and turn signals running it didn’t bog down. 

 

I went through the whole electrical system and everything looked good. 

 

Heres a question though. 

 

I replaced the turn signal relay with an LED one but my turn are standard filament style. Could the LED relay be drawing way more current than the standard one and therefore be affecting the other lights? Dimming them when blinking?

 

My multimeter doesn’t do amps so I couldn’t check for parasitic draw yet either. 

[William1]

Bad ground someplace. Weak battery possible

LED relay, assuming is has the capacity, does not care if it is LEDs or incandescents. The relay draw is insignificant

[motodave289]

On 11/10/2019 at 12:07 AM, Soulprogression said:

I replaced the turn signal relay with an LED one but my turn are standard filament style. Could the LED relay be drawing way more current than the standard one and therefore be affecting the other lights? Dimming them when blinking?

Do you mean led flasher stat? Not sure what would happen with incandescent bulb with led flasher.

To check for draw. use a test light between pos. battery cable and pos. battery post. if it lights up you have a draw.

Using bike charging system to charge a dead battery. May not get it charged very well. As bike heats up. Engine spins easier. So with a flash charge and less drag. May start with a weak battery.

With your volt meter. What is your voltage at rest? What is your voltage while cranking?      

[DroppinDeuces]

IMHO @William 1  nailed it. I have seen the same behavior on Kenworth trucks with a loose connection at a common grounding point.  The turn signals circuit will seek the path of least resistance to ground. Low battery voltage (usually at or below 9-10V) can have a similar effect if that voltage is below proper operating spec for the component(s).

Edited November 11, 2019 by 00boob

[Soulprogression]

On 11/10/2019 at 12:08 PM, William1 said:

Bad ground someplace. Weak battery possible

LED relay, assuming is has the capacity, does not care if it is LEDs or incandescents. The relay draw is insignificant

Any idea where the ground connects to the body of the bike?

The  battery less than three months old checked out as good. I’ve got it on a trickle charge but I am 99% it’s not the battery.  

[Soulprogression]

On 11/11/2019 at 8:11 AM, motodave289 said:

Do you mean led flasher stat? Not sure what would happen with incandescent bulb with led flasher.

To check for draw. use a test light between pos. battery cable and pos. battery post. if it lights up you have a draw.

Using bike charging system to charge a dead battery. May not get it charged very well. As bike heats up. Engine spins easier. So with a flash charge and less drag. May start with a weak battery.

With your volt meter. What is your voltage at rest? What is your voltage while cranking?      

I’m not sure exactly what it’s called I thought it was a relay. It’s a small black square that wires into the turns and when it’s circuit is open it sends flash signal. 

Thanks for the tip in the draw. Can I use any wired light bulb I don’t have a specific test light. That should that be done with the bike fully switched off correct?

It did not have the stall/power loss problem the last time I rode it after full charge. It did however still do the headlight blinking along with turn signals. 

But again. After I rode it and shut everything off or so it seems. I come back a few days later and it’s a nearly dead battery. 

I’ll get those voltage specs tomorrow or Sunday for you. Thank you! Just want to be able to run her like normal. I don’t mind kicking it over or really even the blinking head and tail lights lol but riding at night without headlight because it kills the spark is not working.

I am wondering if it’s related to the light kit? I read a similar case from a few years back here.

 

 

would love to figure this out and get on to fixing the leaky fork seals and replacing the speedo gear ?

 

[William1]

3 hours ago, Soulprogression said:

Any idea where the ground connects to the body of the bike?

The  battery less than three months old checked out as good. I’ve got it on a trickle charge but I am 99% it’s not the battery.  

There is usually a main ground from the battery to the engine. Then a series of other grounds throughout the bike, the service manual shows them. Because bikes are not very big and all connections pretty accessible, REmove teh seat, fuel tank, headlight shroud. I often tell people to simply ensure EVERY connection is good. That means the contact clean, that they appear to make a good connection., Every one that is attached by a screw or bolt is make bright and clean, use dielectric grease (sparingly).

[Soulprogression]

Ok so here’s where were at. Charged voltage 12.5/6 cranking 10.5/8 starts every time off battery no problem. 

Tested the positive on battery to positive cable and it did NOT light up Unless... I switched the bike on. 

I have not had time to clean the grounds but I did find the one that goes to the engine.

Unfortunately When tightening the screw on the positive post my wrench touched the frame and shorted out the flasher stat again.... turns light up but do not flash. Bugger were taking two steps back now.   

 

 

 

[motodave289]

Sorry was not clear on checking draw with light. Would have to be a very low wattage incandescent or led to catch a slight draw. A multimeter would be better to use. Sounds like you may have a draw. Might try disconnecting battery. Let sit couple days and recheck voltage to unhooked battery. To see if it dropped on its own.  With everything off, do you get slight spark when hooking up battery? 

Since a previous owner installed the light kit. May have something wired incorrectly. Could use your volt meter at headlight plug, unplugged to check polarity. With light plugged in. Check voltage to light to see if it is drawing down or being regulated correctly. 

Electrical issues can be frustrating. Take your time to check each circuit over. And you will find the issue.     

[motodave289]

Did a quick look at 04 wr250f wiring diagram. Looks like lights are on the ac voltage side of the magneto. Is the lighting kit wired to the head and taillight. Or is it hooked to dc side of rectifier?  

[Soulprogression]

14 hours ago, motodave289 said:

Sorry was not clear on checking draw with light. Would have to be a very low wattage incandescent or led to catch a slight draw. A multimeter would be better to use. Sounds like you may have a draw. Might try disconnecting battery. Let sit couple days and recheck voltage to unhooked battery. To see if it dropped on its own.  With everything off, do you get slight spark when hooking up battery? 

Since a previous owner installed the light kit. May have something wired incorrectly. Could use your volt meter at headlight plug, unplugged to check polarity. With light plugged in. Check voltage to light to see if it is drawing down or being regulated correctly. 

Electrical issues can be frustrating. Take your time to check each circuit over. And you will find the issue.     

Definitely getting frustrated with this stuff. I don’t know electrical and it’s bugging me to not be able to just ride this thing. I guess it’s good it’s been super rainy and mucky!

 

ill try the battery thing it’s a good idea to see if it discharges itself. 

 

For the headlight are you saying test the headlight plug itself?

 

im wondering if the headlight is too much draw along with the turns but this doesn’t explain the battery draining over night. 

 

Not sure what the rectifier is lol. Can you explain? Sorry man.

 

I need an electrically skilled friend in person for this haha

[motodave289]

Can't find a shareable pdf of manual. So these bad pics. Best I could do. I'm sure you could find manual online.
The rectifier converts ac from magneto to dc. This will allow it to charge a dc battery. If you have your flasher hooked to ac voltage. Not sure how well that would work.
The wiring diagram shows you how many grounds. Just not there location. Also gives you color codes. To trace your grounds and circuits.

[Soulprogression]

So I know this is a bit of a work around and won’t fix the blinking headlight but I was thinking that throwing an inline switch either to the light kit (if that’s where the drain is) or just to all the grounds going to the battery, might at least keep the battery from getting drained. 

For right now I’ve charged the battery and am letting it sit disconnected to see if it discharges. After that I was planning to connect it just to the starter wires and charger plug to see if the drain is coming from there or the light kit. 

Once that’s figured then I’ll know where to start digging.

 I can’t blame the PO completely because I had to figure out where several connections went with loose wires and may have put them back wrong but everything seemed to work until I noticed this. Previously while rebuilding it I was riding it and starting off the E start almost daily so it seemed to stay charged.

I’ll check for that slight spark with everything off when I rehook the battery next. 

I have an interested buyer just wish could get it all dialed before selling, but then again if it’s working perfect I won’t wanna sell haha!

[Soulprogression]

On 11/19/2019 at 6:44 AM, motodave289 said:

Sorry was not clear on checking draw with light. Would have to be a very low wattage incandescent or led to catch a slight draw. A multimeter would be better to use. Sounds like you may have a draw. Might try disconnecting battery. Let sit couple days and recheck voltage to unhooked battery. To see if it dropped on its own.  With everything off, do you get slight spark when hooking up battery? 

Since a previous owner installed the light kit. May have something wired incorrectly. Could use your volt meter at headlight plug, unplugged to check polarity. With light plugged in. Check voltage to light to see if it is drawing down or being regulated correctly. 

Electrical issues can be frustrating. Take your time to check each circuit over. And you will find the issue.     

Ok so I am 99% the battery is not the issue. Fully charged and left it for 2-3 and it lost maybe .01 volts

Also when hooking up the battery. There is a slight spark at the positive cable. Tested just the bikes power cable no light wiring kit or charger and it still sparked a little. 

What does that indicate? Bad ground? Or something else? I’ll wait to hear before pulling tank and headlight shroud again. ????

[Soulprogression]

On 11/19/2019 at 6:44 AM, motodave289 said:

Sorry was not clear on checking draw with light. Would have to be a very low wattage incandescent or led to catch a slight draw. A multimeter would be better to use. Sounds like you may have a draw. Might try disconnecting battery. Let sit couple days and recheck voltage to unhooked battery. To see if it dropped on its own.  With everything off, do you get slight spark when hooking up battery? 

Since a previous owner installed the light kit. May have something wired incorrectly. Could use your volt meter at headlight plug, unplugged to check polarity. With light plugged in. Check voltage to light to see if it is drawing down or being regulated correctly. 

Electrical issues can be frustrating. Take your time to check each circuit over. And you will find the issue.     

Ok so I am 99% the battery is not the issue. Fully charged and left it for 2-3 days and it lost maybe .01 volts

Also when hooking up the battery. There is a slight spark at the positive cable. Tested just the bikes power cable and same slight spark. With everything in off position. 

What does this indicate? Bad ground somewhere or something else? I’ll wait to hear before pulling off the tank and shroud and going on a ghost hunt. 

I have read a bad or failing electronic component can cause a drain too.

Edited November 25, 2019 by Soulprogression

[Soulprogression]

Here’s a little more information as I keep digging. 

With everything “off” when I check voltage between negative cables and negative post there is about 0.90 +/- volts when I pull the fuse for the light kit it drops to 0.70 when I then additionally pull the fuse from the starter relay it drops to about 0.45. 

 

Now I also tested the regulator rectifier with multimeter and I think it checks out. 

 

With the bike idling the voltage is steady climbing up to around 14v when I put on the headlight it drops around a volt. Then when I bring the rpms up it caps the voltage and goes down to around 13v or even a little less.  

 

If my understanding is correct then its doing its job. It should charge at low rpms around 14v and should prevent overcharging the battery by regulating the voltage down when rpms come up. 

 

So battery checks out. 

Charging system seems to check out. 

Now I dig in and look for a short or bad ground. I’m a little confused because of varying views that a bad ground will not drain a battery. But here we go!

[William1]

23 hours ago, Soulprogression said:

Ok so I am 99% the battery is not the issue. Fully charged and left it for 2-3 days and it lost maybe .01 volts

Also when hooking up the battery. There is a slight spark at the positive cable. Tested just the bikes power cable and same slight spark. With everything in off position. 

What does this indicate? Bad ground somewhere or something else? I’ll wait to hear before pulling off the tank and shroud and going on a ghost hunt. 

I have read a bad or failing electronic component can cause a drain too.

Parasitic draw of some sort. To test, disconnect the positive wire to the battery, put a small 12V bulb between the lead and the battery (bike switched off!!!). If the load is excessive, it will cook the bulb, if it is small (I suspect) the bulb will just glow. Now start to unplug things and plug them back in. As you do it, one will cause the light to go out. That is the source of the draw. If none cause the light to go out, you have a fault in the harness.

You are right, a bad ground will not cause a load to be on the battery with the bike turned off. I'm beginning to think you may have multiple issues.

[Soulprogression]

Would a turn signal old style bulb no led kind work? I tried it with that and it didn’t light up. 

After looking over it the wiring is from the battery directly into the light kit harness. All connections look pretty good from what I can see. I say this to clarify that it’s not hooked to the rectifier directly in anyway.

I still couldn’t check the main ground to engine. When I went to pull the tank the gas off switch would not work so I have to figure a work around. Another thing to fix. SOOO ready to sell this thing to someone who’s got more patience lol!

My latest plan is to wire in a switch between the light/bike negative cable and the battery post negative. It will serve two purposes to act as a theft deterrent since there’s no key and to hopefully keep the battery from getting drained every night.

I realize it’s not a fix but I’m sick of working on this thing, getting no where, and not even riding it. At least it will hopefully allow me to show the bike and use the E Start. 

Granted if I forget to switch it off then the problem is still there.

Till I pickup the stuff I will test if the light kit or bikes power supply are draining by leaving the fuse out of the light kit wiring for a night or two.