2020 white plastics yellowing

[Beta300REcat]

2 hours ago, KnotAPro said:

Now I know why I have orange on my Yellow Plastics, too many KTM riders at my local MX Track.

DEFINITELY need to light that one on fire!

That's like root rot in a plum orchard.

[Beta300REcat]

On 11/17/2019 at 8:46 AM, velocityjunky said:

 

 

It's on top of the decals too. Looks like it's something that got on the bike during assembly.

(or maybe it's from the yellow plastic on that Husky ?)

[Josh Leedle]

5 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

What is your capacity in the plastics industry?

Product Development and R&D, mostly in outdoor high performance (ATV, Snowmobile, Water Sports, Marine), firearms, and medical equipment.

BTW, While they are most likely using a TPO (polyolefine) as most do, there are many grades and hundreds of additives that go into it.  Yes PE is a TPO but so is PP and several others.  Even if it is marked as PE, almost all OEMs have a proprietary blends of base resin and additive package that they purchase based on their own testing and quality controls.  Shoot we have even seen how injection press settings can drastically effect the final performance of the parts in this specific industry.  Especially when the molder decides to add a foaming agent to save on resin usage without the OEMs knowledge.    

[Joseph A. Messer]

4 hours ago, M E T A L A C I D said:

Yeah, you don't want to ride with classic Grand Prix winning yellow dirt bikes, their good ness will rub off on your bike, and we don't want that, just saying.?

I frek'n love this pic! I owned a 73 TM125 when I was 12, I was the Envy of all kids for neighborhoods around!

Thanks for the memory

[Josh Leedle]

1 hour ago, mike21b said:

I've seen several complaints about Beta's plastics. As a plastics engineer with 45 years in the business, I would find it totally unacceptable to let this go on. I don't know the specific plastic that Beta uses, but if I had a piece in my hand, I would be able to tell you in 5 minutes or less. 

If I worked for Beta (or one of their suppliers), I would WANT to replace parts like this. It's embarrassing to see it, even though I had nothing to do with making it. 

There's no excuse for it, especially at the price Beta charges for their bikes. 

Or if you were a supplier, see what modifications to the formulation you could make to remedy the issue...or you wont have future orders

[KnotAPro]

26 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

DEFINITELY need to light that one on fire!

That's like root rot in a plum orchard.

I was once visiting Arlen, TX at my buddy's house on Rainey Street. Hank, Bill, Dale, Jeff and myself grilling steaks on the ole' Vognor 5000. Bobby his son ask why is your Yellow Fenders all spotted orange. Boomhauer speaks up before I could give him an answer quote "danged ole Alabama red clay".   

[Josh Leedle]

37 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

It's on top of the decals too. Looks like it's something that got on the bike during assembly.

(or maybe it's from the yellow plastic on that Husky ?)

Good Catch,  Was the grease used on the steering bearings RED by any chance...especially if it said "Red and Tacky" on the tube?  

[Beta300REcat]

28 minutes ago, Josh Leedle said:

but so is PP and several others.

Meant to say PP, sorry. ?

[Beta300REcat]

30 minutes ago, Josh Leedle said:

Especially when the molder decides to add a foaming agent to save on resin usage without the OEMs knowledge.    

Never seen that with PP or PE.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Beta300recat

[Josh Leedle]

Just now, Beta300recat said:

Meant to say PP, sorry. ?

I figured, but your not to far off some are even a blend of the two as well as a silicone compound as a surface and flow modifier.  Now that I see the same coloration on the vinyl decals, my bet is on the grease and cleanliness during the bearing repack and install.  I used a name brand "Red" synthetic bearing grease recently to repack some bearings on both my sand rail and boat trailer and it stained everything it touched.  Even hunter green automotive paint on the frame of my boat trailer.   

[Josh Leedle]

6 minutes ago, Beta300recat said:

Never seen that with PP or PE.

You shouldn't unless they designed it that way.  You can use small amounts of it to further eliminate sink marks if you cant design around them.  But at a reduction of the material performance.      

[stupidmoto]

9 hours ago, pecor said:

Tell your dealer his mechanics need clean Tools when they Assemble bikes.  Look at those Dirty Greasy ass Bar Clamp bolts in Photo #1    

More importantly look at the stains on the graphics, it's definitely not just the plastics. Or are the graphics clear and the stains are showing through the vinyl? 

[typeone]

46 minutes ago, stupidmoto said:

More importantly look at the stains on the graphics, it's definitely not just the plastics. Or are the graphics clear and the stains are showing through the vinyl? 

no, the graphics aren't clear.

[stupidmoto]

13 minutes ago, typeone said:

no, the graphics aren't clear.

ok then its definitely some sort of goo that got on the plastics and graphics and not the plastics discoloring  

[velocityjunky]

The grease from the factory is white/grey.

The bike in images had not been touched or ridden. Literally just sat in garage. 

When I greased my bike yes grease was red, and that's why I thought I may have caused it but it felt wierd as I cleaned it well. I thought it may be from the cleaner not the grease though, but I've used that cleaner on MANY bikes never with an issue. It was a new bike with zero ride time I wanted to make sure it looked good so didn't leave it greasy or blemished. Spots appeared days later and I noticed it once I rolled it out into the sun.

Then I saw my buddies bike ,the one pictured, and realized there must be something from the factory that seems to have contaminated the plastics and it appears over time. He was sure his bike was not like that at delivery and found it as pictured days later.

There is another poster saying his came in crate that way. 

[Josh Leedle]

2 minutes ago, velocityjunky said:

The grease from the factory is white/grey.

The bike in images had not been touched or ridden. Literally just sat in garage. 

When I greased my bike yes grease was red, and that's why I thought I may have caused it but it felt wierd as I cleaned it well. I thought it may be from the cleaner not the grease though, but I've used that cleaner on MANY bikes never with an issue. It was a new bike with zero ride time I wanted to make sure it looked good so didn't leave it greasy or blemished. Spots appeared days later and I noticed it once I rolled it out into the sun.

Then I saw my buddies bike ,the one pictured, and realized there must be something from the factory that seems to have contaminated the plastics and it appears over time. He was sure his bike was not like that at delivery and found it as pictured days later.

There is another poster saying his came in crate that way. 

Does your buddy use the same red grease?  Those are hand prints, and vinyl is fairly chemical resistance and completely different chemistry than the body kit.  It’s a contamination on top of the plastic.  The weird feeling was probably what ever the compound in the red grease was “plasticizing” the plastic as it soaked in.  You mentioned brake fluid, you do realize that is one of the most reactive chemicals to plastics and paints right?  Though PP and PE are generally ok around it.  But they will yellow and craze as they age and dry out from it. For instance the PP reservoir on my sand rail last about 2 years before it yellows and cracks through.  

[velocityjunky]

No on the grease. Pics are from friends bike and he had not worked on it or ridden it. It was pretty much fresh off of the dealer floor, it just sat in his garage. 

Both bikes had spots appear in same areas on headlight mask. Bikes came from different dealers

Brake fluid was never mentioned and had not touched any plastic

It didn't "feel" like anything, what I was saying was it felt weird that it happened. that the fact that it happened is unlike anything I've experienced with any other plastics in any dirtbike I've ever owned. I blamed myself as I thought I caused damage to my new bike, but it did not make sense as I have never seen dirt bike plastics react this way to any grease or motorcycle cleaner I have ever used.

It's getting taken care of....and I was able to clean mine to an acceptable level. The entire post was to see if it is widespread and get the info out there so if it is widespread beta gets it fixed.

[Josh Leedle]

4 minutes ago, velocityjunky said:

No on the grease. Pics are from friends bike and he had not worked on it or ridden it. It was pretty much fresh off of the dealer floor, it just sat in his garage. 

Both bikes had spots appear in same areas on headlight mask. Bikes came from different dealers

Brake fluid was never mentioned and had not touched any plastic

It didn't "feel" like anything, what I was saying was it felt weird that it happened. that the fact that it happened is unlike anything I've experienced with any other plastics in any dirtbike I've ever owned. I blamed myself as I thought I caused damage to my new bike, but it did not make sense as I have never seen dirt bike plastics react this way to any grease or motorcycle cleaner I have ever used.

It's getting taken care of....and I was able to clean mine to an acceptable level. The entire post was to see if it is widespread and get the info out there so if it is widespread beta gets it fixed.

Same dealer?  How clean is their shop and hands during assembly?   I believe they do use a high quality blend, and since it is on top of the vinyl as well, I would start by looking at the point of assembly/setup and work backwards if you want to keep investigating.  But based on your buddies photo placement, shape, and apparent size makes me think it was something on someone’s hands during the final assembly.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Josh Leedle

[velocityjunky]

Re-read my posts.

Different dealers, one poster said his came in crate this way.

[Beta300REcat]

5 hours ago, Josh Leedle said:

You mentioned brake fluid, you do realize that is one of the most reactive chemicals to plastics and paints right?

That and glycols.................... ?