voltage regulator gone bad? common? testing for it?

[cdf450]

for the longest time ive had starting problems when its cold.   just not enough juice in the cold mornings it seems even with a monster brand new, fully charged, 360cca battery and 0w oil.

 

anyways, ive never seen my voltage above 13.3 volts, even when boosting, riding (with my 90W rewound Baja Designs stator) or anything.   ive got other guys telling me their bikes will be 14-14.6v within 5 minutes.   could it be that my voltage regulator in my bike is shot?   whats a test for this?    why 13.3 to choose as its dying number?

 

 

[crypto666]

1 hour ago, cdf450 said:

for the longest time ive had starting problems when its cold.   just not enough juice in the cold mornings it seems even with a monster brand new, fully charged, 360cca battery and 0w oil.

 

anyways, ive never seen my voltage above 13.3 volts, even when boosting, riding (with my 90W rewound Baja Designs stator) or anything.   ive got other guys telling me their bikes will be 14-14.6v within 5 minutes.   could it be that my voltage regulator in my bike is shot?   whats a test for this?    why 13.3 to choose as its dying number?

 

 

If a voltage reg goes bad it would most likely result in over voltage, not under. 

What battery chemistry are you using?

If you are using a lithium battery the cold is the reason, they do not work well in the cold.  Even 32 degrees will decrease the performance to the point they can not meet the application.  It is also possible you have a bad cell in the battery, possibly from operating in the cold.  Lithium chemistry does not do well with be charged cold. 

[crypto666]

run the bike with the battery disconnected and see what the voltage is. 

[RichieGoatGruff]

The 18 KTM in his sig uses a lipo, lipos don't like the cold... But, the longer they crank, the warmer they get. Just keep cranking her.

My 03 WR450 prefers being kicked, when it's below about 35°F. She came with a lead acid, and didn't like the cold. The 18 TE300 doesn't seem to care.

[cdf450]

It’s a brand new ag1201 lithium ion battery right off the tender.


Regardless. Why am I only seeing 13.3v max no matter what I do?? Why is every other vehicle/battery/bike out there showing 14+ volts??

[Spud786]

9 minutes ago, cdf450 said:

It’s a brand new ag1201 lithium ion battery right off the tender.


Regardless. Why am I only seeing 13.3v max no matter what I do?? Why is every other vehicle/battery/bike out there showing 14+ volts??

You are seeing 13.3 running at idle , across the battery?     or are you talking stand by, not running

13.3 too low output to recharge a battery , very well.  Disconnect the headlight and see if voltage pops up a 1/2 a volt

 

is the motor slow to crank, or cranks fine, just wont start?

Vortex have a cold start issue also

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Spud786

[cdf450]

6 hours ago, Spud786 said:

You are seeing 13.3 running at idle , across the battery?     or are you talking stand by, not running

13.3 too low output to recharge a battery , very well.  Disconnect the headlight and see if voltage pops up a 1/2 a volt

 

is the motor slow to crank, or cranks fine, just wont start?

Vortex have a cold start issue also

 

yes. 13.3 at full RPM, full load too.  no matter what, its only 13.3.    when its stand by, not running, im at 13.0 or so.

heres a video of it cold starting for the fire time in a few days, I had the tender on it for a half hour to bring it from 25% (13.0) (somehow was 25%) to 75-100% flashing within a few minutes which brought it to 13.3

Ive got guys on the snowbike forum that also have a pr2 tuner and seem to have problems with cold starting too.

I ripped my headlight and all wiring off as well as heated grips and all wiring last winter over this, its in the trash.  only external draw is the trailtech voyager

 

but my 13.3 number seems fishy. it doesnt seem right.   FYI I tested the multimeter across the battery with the voyager and theyre always the exact same numbers, so the voyager is accurate and thats where I get my numbers from.
 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by cdf450

[Spud786]

Okay , that right there has nothing to do with your battery, that's a cold start fueling issue.

are you using the cold start knob?

 

 

 

as far as your 13 volt, Im not sure if the sxf is a full DC system, otherwise you should be able to see more voltage as a norm , but that's separate from your cold start issue.   also put a meter across the battery while running, don't go by the voyager, till you know its the same reading.

I think you said the bike restarts all day once its running , the only time you have issue a the first cold start?

I would figure a way to prime the bike.

Like my 1995 cr500, you can kick all day till you leg falls off, there a technique to cold start. then it will light first hard kick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Spud786

[cdf450]

yes, youre right (im also talking about this in snowbike section on snowest BTW).   they came to basically the same conclusion as you regaring the cold starting and its the pr2 ecm.  I just installed the stocker and it started very well.  granted its 0C/32F out right now and not even cold, it seemed to be pretty good.     we have reached out to vortex and asking whats up with the pr2.  theres 3 of us with this issue on snowest.  starts amazing when warm though.

 

still would like to figure out why im not above 13.3v though.  I ordered a cheap chinese voltage regulator for $17.   if it works good and gets me above 13.3 ill order the OEM one for $120!!

 

here is starting with the stock ECM. did WAY better:

one thing id like to note that I think is VERY important is that with the stock ECM, and choke off (I tried to film it), the idle was like 2400RPM as seen in the video. I needed to turn the idle screw out nearly 1.5 turns to get the idle back down to 1800ish.

 

I wonder if I put the pr2 on if the idle would be so low it wouldnt even start...  

 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by cdf450

[Spud786]

Your idle sounded good for a choke cold start idle , and dropped nicely with choke off, so I didn't see anything there.

but yeah if you turn the idle down, it might be too low for the vortex to even start.

 

[cdf450]

sounded good?  it sounded screaming high both times to me.   I filmed myself popping it off and it was still like 2400.. isnt that super high?  1800 is what I want isnt it?

[Spud786]

25 minutes ago, cdf450 said:

sounded good?  it sounded screaming high both times to me.   I filmed myself popping it off and it was still like 2400.. isnt that super high?  1800 is what I want isnt it?

Not for a cold start idle with plunger out, ideally it should be higher, than normal.

I like a high idle myself, I think spec is 18 or 1900,  but with  Cold start knob should go higher. 

The oem ecu's have a very good cold start circuit, the Vortex's don't

Edited December 6, 2019 by Spud786

[Spud786]

19 hours ago, cdf450 said:

   why 13.3 to choose as its dying number?

 

 

Im not a big fan of aftermarket stators, although with the sxf you didn't have much choice.

the 2012-2116 exc 500's are oem with 200 watt stator

[cdf450]

wow. 200w stock? thats nuts.

 

even with plunger in it didnt seem to want to idle down. stayed at 2400 until I dialed back the idle screw 1.5 turns.  with cold start it was like 3000.   the engine doesnt seem to go above 8 or 9000 or im scared to bring it passed that and its beyond its efficiency point.   just seems like a bone cold motor running at 3000+ rpm (33% of its max) seems a tad high?

[crypto666]

9 hours ago, cdf450 said:

It’s a brand new ag1201 lithium ion battery right off the tender.


Regardless. Why am I only seeing 13.3v max no matter what I do?? Why is every other vehicle/battery/bike out there showing 14+ volts??

I can't pick it out with the other issues mixed in, but did you check the voltage of the stator output without the battery?  Is it 13.3? 

Also, it seems like you are saying that the battery off the charger/tender fully charged is 13.3v.

If so, your battery has a bad cell.

Also, charging lithium batteries near and below freezing is suspected to cause internal plating of the battery and deteriorates it.

 

[Spud786]

13.3 volts is pretty solid for a stand alone battery off the charger, and you need to let the battery sit for a couple hours, it will probably drop a 10th of volt, and over night maybe another, but 13 volt is normal,  for stand alone.

The question is what you are reading across the battery running,, with a meter, cause reading 13.3v there, your charging circuit is suspect,, or not normal, But if you are doing 4 or 5 starts during a day, 4 or 5 hours riding, and the battery isn't going dead, then it must be charging somewhat.

But yeah ideally you want to see 14 volt across the battery while running.

I normally run between 14.1 and 14.4 , but I also have a higher Lighting bulb, which kills a .1 or .2 volt, automatically. Other wise before that Id run 14.4 to 14.5, That's a solid charge, I never use a tender, but my bike is ridden couple times a week.

Ive never ever had a regulator fail, but a few stators fail, on various bikes. The ktm has like 47,000 mile on original stator

Edited December 6, 2019 by Spud786

[Jall opy]

Try one heavy jumper wire direct from the regulator to the battery +ve.

What are the volts reading now at the battery, with engine running?

I assume you have already checked/cleaned all the earth contacts.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Jall opy

[MacDaddy500excf]

What’s the voltage with the stock ecu? Maybe it’s that

[cdf450]

put the stock ECM in, same thing. 13.3

 

how can I check the voltage without the battery?  can I disconnect the battery positive while the bikes running?

I am not seeing 14 volts while running, EVER, not once.

[Spud786]

29 minutes ago, cdf450 said:

put the stock ECM in, same thing. 13.3

 

how can I check the voltage without the battery?  can I disconnect the battery positive while the bikes running?

I am not seeing 14 volts while running, EVER, not once.

Bike wont run without battery unless it has a capacitor , start bike, run just above idle, measure positive /negative of the battery and note the reading , see if it matches the Gps thingy.