Jump to content
Ben500RR-S

Battery, again.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, bradje said:

well hopefully it is fixed now. Weren't the readings after new harness good?

Yes, before the 2019+(Plus-I say plus as another member had found that Beta had released a 2019+ harness that eliminates the three diodes/condensers.  

 

Prior to the entire harness swap, the max voltage I'd ever see, under perfect conditions, warmed up bike, no headlight, no fan, was 13.5V.  

As soon as the headlight or fan went on, no battery charging was being done as the voltage would drop to 12.8 or 12.5 with the light and fan on, it sucked to put it lightly.  

 

The swap has maxed the voltage to 13.8 to 14.2.  

Headlight on gets 13.4 to 13.5V-this is good. 

 

With the light and fan on it goes to about 12.8 to 13.2V.  When my fan needs to run, I shut the headlight off.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Doc_d said:

New battery or old, if you are only seeing 12ish volts while riding, it's not going to matter.  The battery isn't being fully charged.  The weak battery is just a symptom.

Doc

When I'm riding, like everybody who monitors their voltage using the Voyager, I can keep sending 13.8 to 14.2V to the battery provided the headlight is off and the fan does not run-all day long and that keeps the battery happy. 

 

As soon as stuff is switched on, the voltage drops and other than an upgraded harness with larger diameter wiring, the voltage drops.  As far as I know, it is how it is with these bikes and with the wiring.  

 

I'm accepting of having to replace a $60 AGM battery every year if that is what it takes to keep me sane.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

see I don't know if you are just one person having bad bad luck or if I need to be worried about it when buying a new 2020 Beta.

With the bike running and idling headlight on and possible fan it should still be charging right??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, bradje said:

see I don't know if you are just one person having bad bad luck or if I need to be worried about it when buying a new 2020 Beta.

With the bike running and idling headlight on and possible fan it should still be charging right??

You did not read all the threads. The new harness solves most of the problems. The other problems are typical to ALL enduro-type bikes being ridden below their charging rpms/duration, with the lights and accessories on.  You can further fine tune the harness with an additional 'direct' charging wire, and a secondary chassis ground. Just like on the 2016 KTM.

A battery is a maintenance item and a wear component.  I re-start the bike at least 30 times in one ride, in gear.  I get 150-200 hours of riding out of a battery before it starts to act strange. By then the bike is pretty much 'worn out' and the battery and dozens of other components need to be changed.

Edited by KRAYNIAL
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, bradje said:

see I don't know if you are just one person having bad bad luck or if I need to be worried about it when buying a new 2020 Beta.

With the bike running and idling headlight on and possible fan it should still be charging right??

If you are not riding around in New England year-round, you have very little to worry about.  The Beta forum is not littered with many with charging issues.  

The only reason I have them is I operate in the extreme heat of summer, all while stopping and starting frequently when I'm with the family trail-riding or, in the extreme cold with having to use the headlight in the mornings to stay safe, and heated gloves-these all tax the charging system and the battery as the bike was not designed to really operate in those extreme conditions. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/24/2019 at 12:06 PM, Ben500RR-S said:

If you are not riding around in New England year-round, you have very little to worry about.  The Beta forum is not littered with many with charging issues.  

The only reason I have them is I operate in the extreme heat of summer, all while stopping and starting frequently when I'm with the family trail-riding or, in the extreme cold with having to use the headlight in the mornings to stay safe, and heated gloves-these all tax the charging system and the battery as the bike was not designed to really operate in those extreme conditions. 

 

I am riding in Northeastern Nova Scotia. Extreme heat and humidity in summer. Wicked cold in winter.

I guess I am concerned with initial purchase perse..If i was to take a meter with me and right before signing the papers what would i want to see the battery:

1. Without running, key off

2. without running key on cold

3. after cold start, headlight on as it is automatic

4. started and running long enough for fan to start, headlight still on of course.

Edited by bradje

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, bradje said:

I am riding in Northeastern Nova Scotia. Extreme heat and humidity in summer. Wicked cold in winter.

I guess I am concerned with initial purchase perse..If i was to take a meter with me and right before signing the papers what would i want to see the battery:

1. Without running, key off

2. without running key on cold

3. after cold start, headlight on as it is automatic

4. started and running long enough for fan to start, headlight still on of course.

At this point I wish I bought a KTM. I'll let you know if that changes in the next few weeks. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last night was a good test, for the new battery as the morning ride into work was cold, headlight and 12V gloves were both on.  It stayed cold and it was cold when I got out of work but I had pressed the starter and the motor fired right up.  With the old AGM battery, I'd have to put the jump pack on the battery to get the bike to light.  

I had then ridden home last night and did not put the battery on the charger overnight and this morning, the bike fired up quite fast as it was another cold morning.  

If the bike fires up again tonight, when I get out at 5pm, as it is cold out again today, I'll know that it was just a battery that had its life used up after 1 year and 4 months of having lived a hard life in this 2017 500 RR-S.  

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact your bike starts is not a good indicator of "SOC" (state of charge).    Check the battery with a multimeter after it has sat for a few hours.  It should read 12.6 - 12.7 volts.  Anything less is less than fully charged.  At 12.4 volts it's only 75% charged.  At 12.2 volts it's only 50% charged.  At 12.0 volts it's only 25% charged.   If it's not being fully charged each time, this battery probably won't live a long life either.

If this new battery is an AGM those numbers need to be slightly higher.  12.8 volts for a full charge, 12.6 volts for 75%, 12.3 for 50% and 12.0 for 25%.

Doc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Doc_d said:

The fact your bike starts is not a good indicator of "SOC" (state of charge).    Check the battery with a multimeter after it has sat for a few hours.  It should read 12.6 - 12.7 volts.  Anything less is less than fully charged.  At 12.4 volts it's only 75% charged.  At 12.2 volts it's only 50% charged.  At 12.0 volts it's only 25% charged.   If it's not being fully charged each time, this battery probably won't live a long life either.

If this new battery is an AGM those numbers need to be slightly higher.  12.8 volts for a full charge, 12.6 volts for 75%, 12.3 for 50% and 12.0 for 25%.

Doc

True, all that.  Geesh, you Science-types, all concerned with Facks . . . 

That the bike would not start before, but starts now, lets me know that I now have a good battery.  I consider it SOC, So Okwith Charging and am calling it good.  

 

 

As soon as I get any indication, going forward, that the battery is getting weak, I'll just drop the $60 or so on a new AGM from the Batteries Plus up the street from home and the problem will be solved every year to 14 months or so.  

Edited by Ben500RR-S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another follow-up to all my previous follow-ups;

 

Another start-up after work last night, headlight on with gloves for the ride home.  No trickle/autocharge from the 1.5A Schumacher automatic charger, and this morning, the battery got the bike to fire like it was a nice, warm, sunny day.  

I'm glad that for now, with a new AGM battery, that the charging system is able to keep up so my need to whip out my Weego JS 12 jump pack is not needed after work and below freezing temps all day following a 8.5 hour work shift. 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/11/2019 at 8:43 AM, Ben500RR-S said:

Here is the big-thing, as most do not and have not, done what I have done to this 2017 500 RR-S;

 

 

Most do not run the Baja Designs Squadron Pro headlight.  

Most don't run heated gloves.  

Most do not run in the cold, leave the bike, outside in 10-30 degree F-temps and try and start up after 6-8 hours after work, in the dark. 

 

I'll admit that it is the climate extremes that have made things a lot harder for me, otherwise, the bike runs, and continues to run- awesome.  

Ben - from someone who HATES dealing with electricity in any way, shape, form or amount - mainly because I got bit by 440V on an oil rig in 1986  🤣….it seems to me, you just identified your problem with this post. 

 

I'm curious, why do you store the bike outside? Or is that only while you're at work? Even so, isn't there a broom closet or a shed you can put it in for the day? 

 

From Kraynial's post - why don't you just put a LiOn battery in it? It's 1/3 the weight of anything else, for starters.

 

It just seems to me you're asking a DIRTBIKE's systems to do more than what it's designed to do, plus operate it in extreme conditions. You had me concerned for a bit, being a brand-new Beta 500 owner, but after reading the details, I'm not. Heated grips? Massive amp draw, plus the FI, Voyager, BD light.....seems to me, simply putting too much demand on the system.

 

I took heated grips off a very low-time KTM 300 that I bought from a guy in Albuquerque, for that reason. I only understand the basics, but that just sounds too much for that bike's little stator to handle. 

 

But sounds like you're getting it sorted. 

 

You ride in 0 degrees and lower? Your REAL problem is, you're crazy! 😲

 

Or just waaaay tougher than me. Hey...what can I say, I'm a warm-weather animal 😎

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had to get my battery warranteed again after it stranded me and i had to push it for 3 miles to get back to my pad.

IMG_0175.JPG

I’m thinking of getting a different 500.

I’m getting sick of dealing with these beta demons. I even had the kickstarter on, after about 50 kicks i decided it was best just to push it back to my spot.

I like the bike, its a good bike, but the wiring sucks.

It’s kinda like my old bmw 6 series, great ride, but unreliable.

I think it might be time for a change.

Kinda funny because I’ve never sold a bike, just murdered em then gave em away.

Ive never even had to push my Harley as many times as ive had to push my beta.

It’s getting old!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, 82ProLink said:

Ben - from someone who HATES dealing with electricity in any way, shape, form or amount - mainly because I got bit by 440V on an oil rig in 1986  🤣….it seems to me, you just identified your problem with this post. 

 

I'm curious, why do you store the bike outside? Or is that only while you're at work? Even so, isn't there a broom closet or a shed you can put it in for the day? 

 

From Kraynial's post - why don't you just put a LiOn battery in it? It's 1/3 the weight of anything else, for starters.

 

It just seems to me you're asking a DIRTBIKE's systems to do more than what it's designed to do, plus operate it in extreme conditions. You had me concerned for a bit, being a brand-new Beta 500 owner, but after reading the details, I'm not. Heated grips? Massive amp draw, plus the FI, Voyager, BD light.....seems to me, simply putting too much demand on the system.

 

I took heated grips off a very low-time KTM 300 that I bought from a guy in Albuquerque, for that reason. I only understand the basics, but that just sounds too much for that bike's little stator to handle. 

 

But sounds like you're getting it sorted. 

 

You ride in 0 degrees and lower? Your REAL problem is, you're crazy! 😲

 

Or just waaaay tougher than me. Hey...what can I say, I'm a warm-weather animal 😎

 

 

Yes, I definitely am riding in some extreme conditions, and the real cold.  This season, I have decided to not put the Camso DTS 129 kit on the bike and ride it back and forth to work.  My wife and I got two new snowmobiles, I got a 2019 Ski Doo Grand Touring 600R and my wife just got a 2020 Grand Touring Limited 900 ACE so I had to figure that I won't snowbike this winter and instead, save all the time to ride with the family and I'm ok with it, for now. 

 

I have no choice but to park the bike outside, while I'm at work.  

 

I'm at 5,300+ miles and 303 hours.  

Edited by Ben500RR-S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, surfer-dude said:

Had to get my battery warranteed again after it stranded me and i had to push it for 3 miles to get back to my pad.

IMG_0175.JPG

I’m thinking of getting a different 500.

I’m getting sick of dealing with these beta demons. I even had the kickstarter on, after about 50 kicks i decided it was best just to push it back to my spot.

I like the bike, its a good bike, but the wiring sucks.

It’s kinda like my old bmw 6 series, great ride, but unreliable.

I think it might be time for a change.

Kinda funny because I’ve never sold a bike, just murdered em then gave em away.

Ive never even had to push my Harley as many times as ive had to push my beta.

It’s getting old!

If you replace the entire harness with the new, upgraded, 2019 harness, I'll bet you will stop going through so many batteries.  

It definitely sucks all the times the bike has been leaving you stranded.  I keep the jump pack in my jacket as I had learned last year, that when the battery is too low on voltage/amps, all the kicking in the world is not going to get the bike to light as there is a minimum voltage in order for the engine to fire.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, surfer-dude said:



I’m getting sick of dealing with these beta demons. I even had the kickstarter on, after about 50 kicks i decided it was best just to push it back to my spot.

 

Kind of my thought too. I had the kick starter installed too but if the charging system is compromised then the kick start is useless. No wonder bikes aren't coming stock with them. At least that's from my understanding from the dealer when I took it in for running like garbage. They said I need to keep the bike on a tender always if not the battery will not have enough charge to run the bike properly. If battery voltage drops it causes the bike to run like garbage, so then I have to have the dealer hard reset the ECU again. On top of that my speedometer intermittently stopped working then completely stopped. The orings on the oil fill plugs were letting oil seep out. The gas cap gasket failed and no I didn't over tighten it. Been at the dealer for 17 days business days so far (36 days total). 

Edit: I have a 2019 500 RRS. 

Edited by DentonC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah i left the jump pack in my camelback since my last ride on my ktm. I was just gonna take a nice cruise down to the beach and maybe mess around in the ditch, so i wasnt expecting any issues. I dont know... i was just gonna goof off a little and blow off some steam, instead i got steamed and had to pushbit back home.

On my multimeter with the new battery im getting about 12.96 at the battery posts with the headlight on.

 

Whats this the fifth battery that we’ve been thru???

 

 

Last year before i bought my 2020 ktm 300 xcw i resoldered all of the neck joints. And i think i saw 13.3-13.6 amps at the battery posts.

 

I keep my bike in the garage and have always covered it if we were out and it rained, unless we were actually riding of course. Right about now im thinking its those diode packs.

 

Youre probably right about the 2019 wiring harness. Ive been following your struggle so i kind of understand what youre getting at.

 

I like the bike but i dont enjoy being forced to work on its electricals every few months or risk breaking down. So its very doubtful I’ll get another beta. Another ktm most likely, but on that husky sheet it claims the huskys weight without fuel is 238 pounds and it feels good too, the shops honda was looking really good too, who knows... i just doubt its gonna be another beta.

 

Not sure if i’ll sell the beta or not, theres some things about it that i really like. It just depends how many more times it makes me walk.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any of the bikes with the diode pack should be capable of running without a battery at all, they don't get any current back from the battery anyways. I suspect the bikes without diode packs really are no different either, they should be able to run without a battery.

Assuming the battery is dead, you are probably better off disconnecting the battery before you try to kick it over. At that point, all the battery would be doing is drawing down the voltage.

Someone try to kick their bike without a battery hooked up and let me know please! I would also be interested if there is a difference between RE's and RR-S's is this regard. I've kick started my buddies 350RE when its battery was too weak to turn the engine over. Wasn't too hard to start, IMO.

I have been wondering if there is a market for repaired/soldered/modded wiring harnesses for these bikes. I mean, guys shell out boat loads on suspension upgrades.

Anyone willing to pay to have their harness soldered/modded?

It's not hard to do honestly, and I posted a video of myself doing mine. That said, if you just don't want to do it and would rather ship it off I would be happy to do it, assuming it's worth my time $$ wise. My only concern is without the bike there would be no way to test anything or see if perhaps you have a different problem.

This issue is way easier to sort out than engine tuning or mechanical problems. I mean, if you do it the way Krynal did his it should take all of an hour. Probably less time than it would take you to pull the harness and send it to me.

If battery charging is your only issue just solder the red and black bundles(super easy to get to), tape it back up good, check grounds are clean, move on with life.

This issue is annoying because it's stupid, not terribly complicated or earth shattering. Honestly the simplicity of the issue is why it bums me out to see people struggling with it and missing ride time over it. If you could just drop your bike off at my house I'd have it fixed up by morning. Ya know?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:


×
×
  • Create New...