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Grand Master

Slackkinhard

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, cougbike said:


I know they are desperately seeking single track people to show up to these meetings. The 4x4 people are killing it and if you’ve been up there you can see why.

I'm showing up again, but if this is all about 4x4 trails again, I'm done. They keep saying 'we need single track people'....well, I showed up and they had no interest in what I was saying because they supposedly had to focus on the  4x4 stuff.  If they wanna keep talking about gravel pathways in the rainforest, I can't listen to that. I'm basically going just to see what they are up to.

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cougbike

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I'm showing up again, but if this is all about 4x4 trails again, I'm done. They keep saying 'we need single track people'....well, I showed up and they had no interest in what I was saying because they supposedly had to focus on the  4x4 stuff.  If they wanna keep talking about gravel pathways in the rainforest, I can't listen to that. I'm basically going just to see what they are up to.

I appreciate that. Gravel paths are no Bueno I can’t wrap my head around if I can/want to spend the energy to fight for what we really want
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Grand Master

Slackkinhard

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, cougbike said:


I appreciate that. Gravel paths are no Bueno I can’t wrap my head around if I can/want to spend the energy to fight for what we really want

Once I know what they are up to, I can plan to do my thing away from them. I've got property in the area and it's pretty vast out there. Justt gotta know where they are

Edited by Slackkinhard
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UpperLeft

Posted
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On 1/11/2020 at 11:32 AM, Slackkinhard said:

I'm showing up again, but if this is all about 4x4 trails again, I'm done. They keep saying 'we need single track people'....well, I showed up and they had no interest in what I was saying because they supposedly had to focus on the  4x4 stuff.  If they wanna keep talking about gravel pathways in the rainforest, I can't listen to that. I'm basically going just to see what they are up to.

My understanding of what is happening up at Reiter with all the 4x4 trails is due to lots and lots of work parties volunteers, leadership and organisation. They have some people that are up there working and watching over the place almost daily. I can understand why a bunch of 4x4 folks don't really care about the moto area. What we need is large group of moto people to show up to these meetings and show that there is a the same amount of interest and willingness to put in the work and take care of the place as the 4x4 crowd as shown. That is the only way there will be any progress on the moto side of things for Reiter IMO. 

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Grand Master

Slackkinhard

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10 minutes ago, Patrickpnw said:

My understanding of what is happening up at Reiter with all the 4x4 trails is due to lots and lots of work parties volunteers, leadership and organisation. They have some people that are up there working and watching over the place almost daily. I can understand why a bunch of 4x4 folks don't really care about the moto area. What we need is large group of moto people to show up to these meetings and show that there is a the same amount of interest and willingness to put in the work and take care of the place as the 4x4 crowd as shown. That is the only way there will be any progress on the moto side of things for Reiter IMO. 

Well, that's one point of view. Here's another, we the single track folk did go to many of the meetings. There was very little attention paid to our problem because we were never a problem in the first place. They had to figure out how to keep the problem contained, and only AFTER they come up with that plan has there been any remote chance we could even talk. Heck the little bit of effort that got done was by someone from their crowd that rode moto too. What's been done for us is horribly disrespectful and they won't even admit it. Like I said earlier, I have ZERO interest in listening to how they are going to engineer gravel trails on the grave of what was a world class offroad area. I'm just trying to keep them at a distance and my eye on them. They aren't looking out for me anyway. It's not like they are going to allow us a 24hr Buttstomper, or a first of the year Frostbite GP. Our whole community has been robbed for no apparent reason.

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UpperLeft

Posted
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17 hours ago, Slackkinhard said:

Well, that's one point of view. Here's another, we the single track folk did go to many of the meetings. There was very little attention paid to our problem because we were never a problem in the first place. They had to figure out how to keep the problem contained, and only AFTER they come up with that plan has there been any remote chance we could even talk. Heck the little bit of effort that got done was by someone from their crowd that rode moto too. What's been done for us is horribly disrespectful and they won't even admit it. Like I said earlier, I have ZERO interest in listening to how they are going to engineer gravel trails on the grave of what was a world class offroad area. I'm just trying to keep them at a distance and my eye on them. They aren't looking out for me anyway. It's not like they are going to allow us a 24hr Buttstomper, or a first of the year Frostbite GP. Our whole community has been robbed for no apparent reason.

I have to agree I would probably have this same point of view if I ever had a chance to see and ride old Reiter. From the old videos and stories it sounds like it truly was a "World class" off road area prior to it being shut down. But those days are long gone. The days of being able to ride anywhere that is not a designated ORV area (at least in western WA) are long gone for most. So what we are left with is ORV parks. There are many many things wrong with what is happening at Reiter, most notably costing something like $200,000 per mile of trail, and moto trail that seem to be designed to make people not enjoy them. But  at the same time in my short 3 years of riding it has been the only place to open new trail, the only place with plans for future trail, and one of the few places around that has potential to become an actual "world Class" ORV park. Walker is at its limit for trail miles. Tahuya is over crowded and doesn't have much for elevation change, Capitol Forest and Green Mountain have been reduced to a few miles of beginner trails, Cle Elum is slowly shrinking. SDR is the only place other then Reiter in this area that has a potential to grow. 

They have plans for a camping area at Reiter, they have plans for more trails. Imagine if more moto people were involved and helped with the trail design, hopefully getting around the "need to lay 2 ft of gravel down" on every trail regulation and built more trails. Imagine a off road park a hour and fifteen minutes away from the Seattle area with camping and trails on par with Walker Valley...... That would be cool. 

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Grand Master

Slackkinhard

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Patrickpnw said:

I have to agree I would probably have this same point of view if I ever had a chance to see and ride old Reiter. From the old videos and stories it sounds like it truly was a "World class" off road area prior to it being shut down. But those days are long gone. The days of being able to ride anywhere that is not a designated ORV area (at least in western WA) are long gone for most. So what we are left with is ORV parks. There are many many things wrong with what is happening at Reiter, most notably costing something like $200,000 per mile of trail, and moto trail that seem to be designed to make people not enjoy them. But  at the same time in my short 3 years of riding it has been the only place to open new trail, the only place with plans for future trail, and one of the few places around that has potential to become an actual "world Class" ORV park. Walker is at its limit for trail miles. Tahuya is over crowded and doesn't have much for elevation change, Capitol Forest and Green Mountain have been reduced to a few miles of beginner trails, Cle Elum is slowly shrinking. SDR is the only place other then Reiter in this area that has a potential to grow. 

They have plans for a camping area at Reiter, they have plans for more trails. Imagine if more moto people were involved and helped with the trail design, hopefully getting around the "need to lay 2 ft of gravel down" on every trail regulation and built more trails. Imagine a off road park a hour and fifteen minutes away from the Seattle area with camping and trails on par with Walker Valley...... That would be cool. 

I just disagree with this 'can't beat 'em join 'em' attitude. I won't take up arms with folks that have a defeatist attitude and goals. I'd prefer to be rogue and continue to ride all the vast areas of public land that they don't know about. I just need to build mine slightly away from theirs. What is truly sad is that it's very hard to share them with the rest of ya. Wish I could, but folks give in too easy.

I think folks should be fighting pissed, not acting like we should be happy to have something. We've earned it....they took it away.

Edited by Slackkinhard
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cougbike

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Posted
I just disagree with this 'can't beat 'em join 'em' attitude. I won't take up arms with folks that have a defeatist attitude and goals. I'd prefer to be rogue and continue to ride all the vast areas of public land that they don't know about. I just need to build mine slightly away from theirs. What is truly sad is that it's very hard to share them with the rest of ya. Wish I could, but folks give in too easy.
I think folks should be fighting pissed, not acting like we should be happy to have something. We've earned it....they took it away.

It’s a tough one. Old school says f- them I want the old trails back. New school says it is what it is so let’s get going on it If it was closer to me I think I would try to be more involved but my area is Cle elum and I’m doing what I can to keep that area from succumbing to the anti moto crowd - always a fight. Never thought I would be part of a group that is so hated by some Oh well fight the good fight
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Grand Master

Slackkinhard

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Posted
7 hours ago, cougbike said:


It’s a tough one. Old school says f- them I want the old trails back. New school says it is what it is so let’s get going on it If it was closer to me I think I would try to be more involved but my area is Cle elum and I’m doing what I can to keep that area from succumbing to the anti moto crowd - always a fight. Never thought I would be part of a group that is so hated by some Oh well fight the good fight

some folks are only happy with themselves when they take something away from others. The ends in which they will go to justify their evilness is shocking. I just can't waste my time with them. It's like lying with dogs and complaining about fleas.

Like I said, just gotta keep an eye on them, make decisions that benefit me, and avoid letting them know anything. To be truthful, it's always been this way....folks like I describe have always been around. As soon as they see someone else having more fun than them, they try to ruin it. Environmental 'damage' is doublespeak meant solely to give them a tool to hammer us with. It's not real.

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brian.havoc

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Gonna try to get there, but I'll be honest about my motivation levels when I look at driving through Seattle twice (coming from Tacoma) on a week night.  I feel like I should understand the place better after riding with the kids a couple years ago and leaving disgusted because I'd showed up for Old Reiter.

The 4x4 guys worked very hard to be world-class assclowns when I was asking questions a couple weeks ago.  Part of me says F-em, they want that attitude and want to make up bullshit stories about how moto ruins their wheeler trails, why should I put in effort?  Let the pirates get the place get shut down again.  Another part of me says that working under the new rules is akin to a beaten dog rolling over and showing its belly.  I'm really conflicted on the place because I know previous efforts to get back out there were blown off, the primary usergroup is chock full of assclowns, and it'll take a ton of work to get it to a point where it's worthwhile.  

Still, I'll go.  Maybe a miracle will occur.  Like @Slackkinhard said, maybe we finally get the go to hike and flag.  Maybe we have an unhosted "non-event" this spring where we just happen to show up with a couple dozen friends and burn the flagged trails in?  It could happen, right?  

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brian.havoc

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Recent update on WA DNR meetings for Reiter:  

 

General Announcements:
Minor changes planned for these meetings.
Location: Every other month (January, March, May, July, September) will be held in the East Public Meeting Room of the Robert Drewel Building, 3000 Rockefeller Ave, Everett from 7:00 – 9:00 PM. The months in between (February, April, June, August, October) will rotate the meeting location to different locations that may include but not be limited to Monroe, Snohomish, Sultan, Mill Creek, Startup. No meetings will occur in November or December.
Discussion Topics: Each meeting DNR plans to have a more thorough presentation regarding topics that govern how DNR operates. January and February meetings will have brainstorming opportunities for the public to suggest topics that interest them.


Non-Motorized:
DNR staff met with State Parks staff and agreed on projects for the 21-23 grant cycle.
Multi-purpose trail with downhill mt bike option west of the State Park.
Trail reroutes – circumvent new/expanding beaver pond near Wallace Lake; new trail adjacent to current mainline road that will be abandoned with the Brushcrasher timber sale.
Started SEPA for trails west of Wallace Falls State Park. Expect to open for public comment sometime in March/April.
Met with Evergreen Mountain Bike Alliance on maintaining trails using an RCO grant they received to help.
 

Motorized Updates:
Motorized Parking Lot Update:
Continue to work with PACE Engineers to acquire Land Disturbance Activities Permit from Snohomish County.
Anticipate being shovel ready by July 2020.
Looking to coordinate with the Northwest Motorcycle Association (NMA) and the Washington Off Highway Vehicle Alliance (WHOVA) to get help maintaining the ORV trails in Reiter since they received RCO grants too.

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