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redrider144

supercross Webb did Barcia a huge favor

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....by leaving Yamaha and winning the 450 SX title immediately.  That was the smoking gun that Yamaha brass couldn't hide from any longer.  Yamaha finally dedicated resources to building a bike that Barcia could be comfortable on.  That coupled with how much testing Barcia did appears to be paying off, at least so far.

We've been debating the last several years how much was the bike vs how much was Yamaha's stubborn refusal to devote resources to testing.  I think we have the answer, don't you?

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34 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

....by leaving Yamaha and winning the 450 SX title immediately.  That was the smoking gun that Yamaha brass couldn't hide from any longer.  Yamaha finally dedicated resources to building a bike that Barcia could be comfortable on.  That coupled with how much testing Barcia did appears to be paying off, at least so far.

We've been debating the last several years how much was the bike vs how much was Yamaha's stubborn refusal to devote resources to testing.  I think we have the answer, don't you?

Yes...but they didn't even have a factory team until 2016.

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I think it was more Webb, other riders and lack of a definitive program, etc more than the bike itself over the years. Good to see Barcia and Yamaha running well.

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Wow, Yamaha has been the most bashed brand for the last 5 years (for good reason) and now all of a sudden they're shaping up to be the bigboy in town again according to a lot of blue believers. 

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33 minutes ago, BBA said:

Wow, Yamaha has been the most bashed brand for the last 5 years (for good reason) and now all of a sudden they're shaping up to be the bigboy in town again according to a lot of blue believers. 

My point in this thread is to call out how Yamaha brass clearly refused to devote resources to testing, until Webb's immediate post-Yamaha success rubbed their noses in it so badly that they had to wipe the shit off their faces.

Had Webb just showed a marginal improvement, nothing changes.  Webb getting the most main event wins, along with a SX title his 1st year away from Yamaha, made it impossible for Yamaha to ignore their own stubborn bs arrogant attitude was holding them back.

Sometimes it takes getting kicked in the dick really hard to realize you need to make a change.

Edited by redrider144
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16 minutes ago, BBA said:

Wow, Yamaha has been the most bashed brand for the last 5 years (for good reason) and now all of a sudden they're shaping up to be the bigboy in town again according to a lot of blue believers. 

Nope, just striking while the iron is hot. Team orange has been on a run for a while and the squidy patrol doesn't hesitate to do an endzone dance for every single thing they do good. Now it's our turn.

ChooChoo Wagon  BLuCrU baby!

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24 minutes ago, BBA said:

Wow, Yamaha has been the most bashed brand for the last 5 years (for good reason) and now all of a sudden they're shaping up to be the bigboy in town again according to a lot of blue believers. 

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....by leaving Yamaha and winning the 450 SX title immediately.  That was the smoking gun that Yamaha brass couldn't hide from any longer.  Yamaha finally dedicated resources to building a bike that Barcia could be comfortable on.  That coupled with how much testing Barcia did appears to be paying off, at least so far.
We've been debating the last several years how much was the bike vs how much was Yamaha's stubborn refusal to devote resources to testing.  I think we have the answer, don't you?

Yes! And Webb made many statements during his 450 Yamaha tenure how much he preferred the stock bike over his Factory machine. Even on his way out the door he made very positive comments about the stock 450.

Have we ever heard any Factory Yamaha rider compliment the bike, or Yamaha’s willingness to respond to their input? Quite the contrary. Reed commented after getting a podium on it a few years ago how Yamaha finally made some changes he requested. It’s a common theme, at least in U. S. competition. It seems the European program has been vastly different, and more responsive to the riders. As it should be!

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56 minutes ago, indy rider said:

Yes...but they didn't even have a factory team until 2016.

All the more reason to invest significant resources once they had a team again.  That's no excuse from 2016 - 2019.  Makes it even worse really.

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1 minute ago, redrider144 said:

All the more reason to invest significant resources once they had a team again.  That's no excuse from 2016 - 2019.  Makes it even worse really.

How long did it take KTM to get to be a winning team? Seriously, I don't have any idea when they even started there SX team. 

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2 minutes ago, motrock93b said:

Yes! And Webb made many statements during his 450 Yamaha tenure how much he preferred the stock bike over his Factory machine. Even on his way out the door he made very positive comments about the stock 450.

And note that Barcia said they don't get parts from Japan.  What's the point in a factory bike if it isn't customized to the rider?

Sounds like Yamaha Japan ships the "factory" version as is, and if you don't like it, it's up to you to fix it.  All the more reason to set that bike off to the side and start with a stock bike and work from there.

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Just now, indy rider said:

How long did it take KTM to get to be a winning team? Seriously, I don't have any idea when they even started there SX team. 

You're missing the point.  Yamaha clearly wasn't even trying until Webb rubbed their noses in it by immediately being at the front of the pack on a totally different bike.

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Just now, redrider144 said:

You're missing the point.  Yamaha clearly wasn't even trying until Webb rubbed their noses in it by immediately being at the front of the pack on a totally different bike.

You missed my point that KTM didn't start with the program that they've become. 

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8 minutes ago, indy rider said:

You missed my point that KTM didn't start with the program that they've become. 

You think KTM magically lucked into it, or perhaps they kept working / testing until they found a combo that Dungey & others were comfortable on?  I still don't see any point by you?

Barcia straight up said he was getting told NO until this past offseason.  Then the answer became YES.  This wasn't a multi-year effort that just started paying off.  It didn't begin until this past offseason.  And the catalyst was clearly that Webb left and had instant success.  Barcia even named Webb leaving as the starting point.

What's so hard for you to admit something that even Barcia is making crystal clear?

Edited by redrider144

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6 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

You think KTM magically lucked into it, or perhaps they kept working / testing until they found a combo that Dungey & others were comfortable on?  I still don't see any point by you?

Barcia straight up said he was getting told NO until this past offseason.  Then the answer became YES.  This wasn't a multi-year effort that just started paying off.  It didn't begin until this past offseason.  And the catalyst was clearly that Webb left and had instant success.  Barcia even named Webb leaving as the starting point.

What's so hard to admit something that even Barcia is making crystal clear?

I'm just saying they have only been running the team for 4 year and building a winning team takes time. When KTM formed their team, did they go straight to winning races? Not even close. Building a team/program is a process that takes time and is always evolving.

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Actually it was nothing like 4 years

You need to look it up ,or your posts are going to look even more badly informed

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11 minutes ago, indy rider said:

I'm just saying they have only been running the team for 4 year and building a winning team takes time. When KTM formed their team, did they go straight to winning races? Not even close. Building a team/program is a process that takes time and is always evolving.

Do you think Barcia is lying then, that he kept getting told NO until this past offseason?  Otherwise your supposed point about "process that takes time" is meaningless.

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11 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Do you think Barcia is lying then, that he kept getting told NO until this past offseason?  Otherwise your supposed point about "process that takes time" is meaningless.

No but nor do I think a team should jump to attention when some kid wants something. They should be willing to at least consider it and try it if it sounds reasonable though.

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