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firffighter

DBC 300 RACE weigh in

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According to his scale and weigh method the only real difference between a 17' and 20' model weight is the kicker and lead acid battery.  7lbs difference sounds about right for a kicker and lead acid battery.  The 17' also had the OI.  So in reality my 17' is just as good, just saying ;)

Edited by NW_drZ
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1 hour ago, NW_drZ said:

According to his scale and weigh method the only real difference between a 17' and 20' model weight is the kicker and lead acid battery.  7lbs difference sounds about right for a kicker and lead acid battery.  The 17' also had the OI.  So in reality my 17' is just as good, just saying ;)

Exactly what I was thinking.

Funny how weight is the number one concern for so many vs how it actually feels out on the trail while ridden. 

Most will add that 7 lbs back easily by the time they add all of the bulky heavy armor. 

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2 minutes ago, firffighter said:

Exactly what I was thinking.

Funny how weight is the number one concern for so many vs how it actually feels out on the trail while ridden. 

Most will add that 7 lbs back easily by the time they add all of the bulky heavy armor. 

Maybe!? But, we know that you can make a bike fairly light with estart, there is no reason another manufacturer couldn't do that, especially now that the ground work has been both done and proven... 

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1 hour ago, Hans Schmid said:

Maybe!? But, we know that you can make a bike fairly light with estart, there is no reason another manufacturer couldn't do that, especially now that the ground work has been both done and proven... 

Yeah very true. I was more referring to how caught up guys get on the bike's weight, then do this: 

 

* BrandCycra

ModelCycra Pro Bend - Center Reach 1-1/8" Oversized Bar

Item Weight3.3 pounds

* Bullet Proof Design Radiator Guards  

Lightweight – each guard weighs 12 ounces

Manufacturer: Enduro Engineering

Item Weight2.2 pounds

* Brand: P3

Model: P3 Pipe Guard

Item Weight 2.5 pounds

* DG-WARP9 Rear disc guard

WEIGHT:

1.75 LBS

That's just the typical armor mounted by a large portion of riders, many of whom are focused on bike weight. That's 11.5 lbs added. 

I just find that interesting. 

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13 minutes ago, firffighter said:

Yeah very true. I was more referring to how caught up guys get on the bike's weight, then do this: 

 

* BrandCycra

ModelCycra Pro Bend - Center Reach 1-1/8" Oversized Bar

Item Weight3.3 pounds

* Bullet Proof Design Radiator Guards  

Lightweight – each guard weighs 12 ounces

Manufacturer: Enduro Engineering

Item Weight2.2 pounds

* Brand: P3

Model: P3 Pipe Guard

Item Weight 2.5 pounds

* DG-WARP9 Rear disc guard

WEIGHT:

1.75 LBS

That's just the typical armor mounted by a large portion of riders, many of whom are focused on bike weight. That's 11.5 lbs added. 

I just find that interesting. 

Overlapping concerns: protecting a lighter bike still yields a lighter bike, just not the lightest. 

Edit: Also, the weight is not just about "how it actually feels out on the trail while ridden," as much as it is how it actually feels out on the trail while trying to lift it off of myself. I'm an old man and don't have all the muscle mass of you young whippersnappers. 😝

Edited by Old Plonker
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35 minutes ago, Old Plonker said:

Overlapping concerns: protecting a lighter bike still yields a lighter bike, just not the lightest. 

Yep. 

it's just interesting how much bike weight has been a focus for riders over the years and less focus on rider's own weight or keeping aftermarket items to a minimum if weight is such a big concern. 

Adding items like Flex bars, Steering stabilizer, tool packs, etc is common and some of these same riders will complain about their 2-stroke being too heavy. 

The interview with Tim Pilg indicated that Beta isn't focused solely on bike weight, but more so on the bike's rideability and how it actually feels when being ridden. 

Could Beta go the KTM route and be lighter? Yes, but that doesn't seem to be their focus and the vast majority of Beta owners are satisfied with the performance and feel of the bike out on the trails and that's where it matters. 

Plus, there's plenty of options in the line up if you are solely looking for just a light bike with the 125 and 200 available. 

I personally like the balance Beta has managed to find between keeping the bike reasonable in weight while maintaining a stable platform on the trail. Tim alluded to this in his interview as well. 

Good topic and always interesting to see guy's perspectives on weight. 

Edited by firffighter
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I found it interesting that it only weighed 3lbs more than the 200

Beta dry weights have them about 15lbs different

300RE: 228lbs

200RR: 213.8

 

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Did I miss it, or did he not compare it directly with something that is it's direct competition?

KTM TPI, Sherco, TM, YZ250X etc. 

I know it's easier to fill it up, but that is a flawed method since bikes come with different size tanks. Going from an empty tank to 2 gal. for each bike makes more sense. Good thing he's not measuring Dakar bikes...

Edited by Johnny Depp
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27 minutes ago, Old Plonker said:

Edit: Also, the weight is not just about "how it actually feels out on the trail while ridden," as much as it is how it actually feels out on the trail while trying to lift it off of myself. I'm an old man and don't have all the muscle mass of you young whippersnappers. 😝

I get that and there's a portion of the riding community that this is a concern. 

Pushing, pulling, and lifting the bike is a factor for some riders. This is where the right bike for the right situation is probably most important. Luckily, Beta has the X Trainer and 200 options, where KTM only has the 150 as an alternative to a full size bike. 

Most manufacturers aren't focused on guys picking their bike up though :D 

I know I'll get there someday. Hopefully by then, the hover bike will be available! 

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28 minutes ago, firffighter said:

...Most manufacturers aren't focused on [old] guys picking their bike up though :D 

I know I'll get there someday. Hopefully by then, the hover bike will be available! 

Kind of like a flying Sea-Doo. Nope, weight won't be a problem.

Still shaking my head at the 200RR weight he got. That's not in line with other weights I've seen posted on TT. Do you know how much your KTM 200 weighs RTR?

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4 minutes ago, Old Plonker said:

Still shaking my head at the 200RR weight he got. That's not in line with other weights I've seen posted on TT. Do you know how much your KTM 200 weighs RTR?

My KTM 200 weighs in right around 240lbs all fueled up. 

Ride it through the trees and it feels like a Mt bike with a motor!  Completely different experience than the 300, 250, or even the X Trainer which I rode on these same trails back to back. 

 

The bike that had intrigued me for several years is the KTM 150. I would love to try one and for the fast flowing woods I mainly ride I think it'd be a great weapon. 

Dick Burleson had a great comment on the 150 here at 8:00 mark. Putting power to the ground without wheel spin. 

 

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The 20 does have a larger tank than the 17 though not by much.  Funny I had a 16 350rr same generation as th 17. When I bought my 18 (rr twin injector)  it felt heaps lighter I think mainly due to the engine characteristics. The 20 (390) feels lighter again it certainly holds in a rut better and feels very different to ride over the 19 390 I rode  back to back.  Was a fun day as we also had 2020 350,450,500 exc's and a 150 tpi as demo's for the day all ridden back to back. 

MM 

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1 hour ago, firffighter said:

My KTM 200 weighs in right around 240lbs all fueled up. 

Ride it through the trees and it feels like a Mt bike with a motor!  Completely different experience than the 300, 250, or even the X Trainer which I rode on these same trails back to back. 

 

The bike that had intrigued me for several years is the KTM 150. I would love to try one and for the fast flowing woods I mainly ride I think it'd be a great weapon. 

Dick Burleson had a great comment on the 150 here at 8:00 mark. Putting power to the ground without wheel spin. 

 

That's a nice ride, Mr. Firf: nice pace, nice flow. I liked the Yield sign at the fire road. Never seen that around here (Colorado).

I guess 240# is what you get with 200ccs.  My 1981 XR200R weighed about that (with all 12 thundering horses).

 

Edited by Old Plonker
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3 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Did I miss it, or did he not compare it directly with something that is it's direct competition?

KTM TPI, Sherco, TM, YZ250X etc. 

I know it's easier to fill it up, but that is a flawed method since bikes come with different size tanks. Going from an empty tank to 2 gal. for each bike makes more sense. Good thing he's not measuring Dakar bikes...

The point of his method is to weigh them ready to ride. We generally start the day with a full tank of fuel, seems to me like the best way to compare the bikes. He has weights of all the bikes he has tested on his website as well.  

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7 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Did I miss it, or did he not compare it directly with something that is it's direct competition?

KTM TPI, Sherco, TM, YZ250X etc. 

I know it's easier to fill it up, but that is a flawed method since bikes come with different size tanks. Going from an empty tank to 2 gal. for each bike makes more sense. Good thing he's not measuring Dakar bikes...

Yes his method penalizes manufacturers who put larger size tanks on.

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If a gallon of fuel is roughly 6 pounds (or 1.6lbs per litre) then why not just do the math on tank size vs fuel weight to find out the empty tank weight?

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The blokes a complete numpty !

I would like to see what it weighed with out fuel compared to the 200 and see if it’s close to the manufacturing state 

200rr = 97kg

300re = 103.5

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