Jump to content
joemamma42

Cracked case after oil change

Recommended Posts

11 minutes ago, 5001craig said:

I haven't changed my oil yet. 

That said, does anyone else think this looks odd??  I haven't crawled underneath my bike to study this but from the pic, the oil plug boss looks like an appendage off the side of the casting.  Looks like a weak spot in the casting and a perfect place to crack.  To me, it's weird that more aren't having a problem with this if this is a design problem.

IMG_20200203_111125.jpg.3ec13fa842eea1976dbd63f781caf530.thumb.jpg.d2a4c0d1d6109b5b9fa7009dad93613b.jpg

Also, any ideas on how one would safety wire the oil plug so it could be left fairly loose (finger tight) but still not back out?  The plug looks flat without any place to drill a hole through for safety wire. 

Just to be clear Is this a picture from your bike or is that from the OP?

Otherwise IMO since the plug has a rubber o-ring so you should be able to just finger tighten it or maybe just like a 1/16 of a turn with a 3/8 ratchet and it should not loosen cus from this topic it seems it actually tightens once the engine is warm.

As a suggestion, tighten as I suggested, warm up the bike, check for an oil leak. Stop the bike, let it cool done and check how tight the bolt actually feels by hand assuming it doesn't leak and should reflect how the bolt will be when you ride BUT this is only my suggestion and I take no responsibility.

I'm sure if I took the bolt to a buddies shop, he could drill a small enough hole through the head to get some thin snare/safety wire though it and you could wire to the frame something like this.

Clipboard01.jpg.b99f6f04f7d65c7232c12ef8df78ce84.jpg

I've posted this here and in other topic many times and IMO most bolts do not have to be super tight.

IMO I'm a Honda guy, thinks this SUCKS and only trying to be helpful

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, 5001craig said:

Yes part 22 & 38 is the right side engine case drain bolt and the rubber o-ring but if you did not want to deal with that, you could try the left side outer clutch case bolt/plug 26 like I suggested to drain the oil but it still has the rubber o-ring and you would need to be careful.

 

Edited by filterx
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, filterx said:

Yes part 22 & 38 is the rubber o-ring in the right side engine case drain bolt but if you did not want to deal with that, you could try the left side outer clutch case bolt/plug 26 like I suggested to drain the oil but it still has the rubber o-ring and you would need to be careful.

I am not sure drilling the drain plug like you suggested would work as I do not believe there is much of the plug that sticks past the aluminum case.

I probably wouldn't have thought of that as an option.  Honestly, I would use my oil extractor before I would split the cases.  Oil extractor + removing oil filter should get most everything out right?

Edited by 5001craig
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bajacaat said:

I took it down to my local reputable motorcycle repair shop. They were going to use an impact tool. I didn’t want to risk it. I don’t think I’m going to do anything, until I take it to the dealer.

its definitely too tight. I definitely didn’t over tighten the bolt. Just hand tight and a little snug from there. They said I could take my clutch cover off and drain the oil from there. Who knows how long until the dealers open. Such a disappointment. I don’t want to regret cracking the case. I’ll let the dealer do that, if it happens. Way to much money to repair.

why couldn’t they just put a regular drain bolt like all the other Honda’s I’ve owned over the years.

ugh 

 

i dont know how urs is, but my local honda dealer would try to blame me if they f--ked it up, slimy bastards.  

i'd try the propane torch and ice method.  do a few cycles of that.  almost sounds like this plug is seizing somehow...

glad  u didn't let them clown around with an impact wrench.  thats almost a sure way to kill it if its fragile.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, xbobx said:

i dont know how urs is, but my local honda dealer would try to blame me if they f--ked it up, slimy bastards.  

i'd try the propane torch and ice method.  do a few cycles of that.  almost sounds like this plug is seizing somehow...

glad  u didn't let them clown around with an impact wrench.  thats almost a sure way to kill it if its fragile.

The dealer I bought it from just went out of business after 37 years. I had a good relationship with them. Now the other dealers are all closed down. C-virus. What are the chances!! I just put new tires, chain and sprockets on it. So I’m going to just take it out and ride it a few more times. My wife just got a 2019 klx250 with a plate. So I guess I can ride that around until the dealer opens back up. If I can’t get it off. I don’t like the drain plug design. Not sure what Honda was thinking on this one. Other than thAt I love the bike. If my case end up cracking. I’ll be done with this bike.

It sounds like someone else on this thread had the same problem and the dealer got it off with a breaker bar and torch. So maybe there’s hope!!

Edited by bajacaat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, bajacaat said:

The dealer I bought it from just went out of business after 37 years. I had a good relationship with them. Now the other dealers are all closed down. C-virus. What are the chances!! I just put new tires, chain and sprockets on it. So I’m going to just take it out and ride it a few more times. My wife just got a 2019 klx250 with a plate. So I guess I can ride that around until the dealer opens back up. If I can’t get it off. I don’t like the drain plug design. Not sure what Honda was thinking on this one. Other than thAt I love the bike. If my case end up cracking. I’ll be done with this bike.

It sounds like someone else on this thread had the same problem and the dealer got it off with a breaker bar and torch. So maybe there’s hope!!

u in the U.S. or?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, xbobx said:

u in the U.S. or?

California US

i wonder if it’s the threads that are seized or the O-Ring or a combination of both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, bajacaat said:

California US

i wonder if it’s the threads that are seized or the O-Ring or a combination of both.

it's not the rubber at all.  the plug and the case might be different enough metal alloys that there is a reaction causing some seizure/fusion in the metals, but that's pure speculation. usually there is always some amount of oil that stays on these threads, so i'm not sure how that plays into it.  still seems to be an uncommon issue.

here's some random on-topic science gobbledy, lol

Quote

When metal surfaces are placed together, the area over which they touch is usually very small. As a result, the localized pressures at the points of real contact are sufficiently high to produce plastic flow of the metal. Even under static conditions, these high pressures may produce “cold-welding” between the surfaces, and the metallic junctions so formed may be very strong. These junctions are sheared during sliding, and if they are stronger than the parent metals, heavy damage may result which is not limited to the interface at which intimate contact occurs. The growth and extension of this localized damage constitutes seizure.

It follows that those factors which facilitate localized welding will, in general, increase the chances of large-scale seizure. Similarly, surface films which are capable of reducing localized adhesion will reduce the chances of seizure.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, bajacaat said:

I wonder if spraying Wd-40 into the threads and letting it soak for awhile could help?

oh, if u alrdy had a real shop try to loosen it, then it's unlikely to help.  take ur heat gun and ice cubes to it, if ur not rdy to try a torch... ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

When I bought the bike I considered the frequent oil changes, but it was supposed to be a easy enough job I could easily do by myself, while on the road or without taking it to a dealer. But I see that this plug may be a problem and can turn a simple thing into a huge PITA....

Thanks for reporting this. I´ll be really careful when I do it. Dealers and other bike shops are closed here too until who knows when...

Edited by jdwhite
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, bajacaat said:

 

Sure enough it’s stuck. I don’t think it’s cracked now from being tight or I’m sure oil would be leaking. Just don’t want to be the one who cracks it. I’m thinking if the dealer can get it loose or they break it. I’m might have a better chance with my warranty. 
.... Only because if it breaks I want the dealer to be the guy. 

 

Unless the dealer has documented records of doing all the oil changes, you are out of luck.  They will claim you overtightend it.

 

  • Like 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MVI said:

Unless the dealer has documented records of doing all the oil changes, you are out of luck.  They will claim you overtightend it.

 

I’ve decided to get an oil extractor. I guess I have a new way to change my oil. If and when I need any engine work, I’ll deal with the bolt then. On the bright side. At least I can still ride my bike. I guess this is another post to warn ppl to hand tighten the bolt only. Wish I would have caught this thread before mine tightened up. Mine was hand tight plus just a little turn to make snug. Definitely didn’t tighten it down anymore than my previous oil changes. I’ll report back if anything changes. Thanks for all the help. At least I don’t have to remove my skid plate anymore. Haha

trying to stay positive 

Edited by bajacaat
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, bajacaat said:

I’ve decided to get an oil extractor. I guess I have a new way to change my oil. If and when I need any engine work, I’ll deal with the bolt then. On the bright side. At least I can still ride my bike. I guess this is another post to warn ppl to hand tighten the bolt only. Wish I would have caught this thread before mine tightened up. Mine was hand tight plus just a little turn to make snug. Definitely didn’t tighten it down anymore than my previous oil changes. I’ll report back if anything changes. Thanks for all the help. At least I don’t have to remove my skid plate anymore. Haha

trying to stay positive 

Go ahead and try and remove the (crank positon) CAP PN#26 on Right side, can drain oil there.

I've had mine off 2x doing valve adjustments and always easy to open so far..

1737535670_ScreenHunter_1585Mar_2610_15.jpg.22aa0df2d16d024ae469feb251050815.jpg

Edited by MVI
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok what are the feelings of using a small amount of anti seize on the threads and hand tightening since it would give a false torque reading? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Antiseize does not belong in the crankcase.  Threads should be oiled when the plug is installed.  6 ft-lbf

( ~ 50% of dry torque listed in manual)

 

  • Like 1
  • Helpful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, MVI said:

Antiseize does not belong in the crankcase.  Threads should be oiled when the plug is installed.  6 ft-lbf

( ~ 50% of dry torque listed in manual)

 

Cool I'll do that next time. This post has me paranoid ;) 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MVI said:

 

( ~ 50% of dry torque listed in manual)

 

In the manual Honda lists a few torque values a bit higher than I was used to. 94 lbf·ft (128 N·m, 13.1 kgf·m) for the rear axle nut?? I always used around 73 lbf·ft (100 N·m) and my last bike (a 160kg 650cc) by the manual was 80N.m (59 lbf.ft). I used 120 Nm (88 lbf.ft) when I adjusted the chain but still think it´s too much... 

Exhaust pipe joint nuts 16 lbf·ft (22 N·m, 2.2 kgf·m)?? I set the torque wrench to that value but when doing it considered it to be too much and just tightened until I thought it was enough to get a good gasket seal.

Is it because it´s set to be a more hardcore dirt bike?

 

Edited by jdwhite

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:


×
×
  • Create New...