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herrmann450r

My take on the KYB RE forks

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After getting a few rides on different terrain and becoming more comfortable on the bike, I figured I would post my opinion about the suspension on my 2020 300RE since it seems to be a huge debate. This is just my opinion so it really isn't worth much but I am just a normal rider like almost all of the people in here buying a bike would be. First off, i'm 190 lbs, ex Motocross rider turned trail rider. Have raced harescrambles in the past but doing a lot more single track now in rocky tight conditions. After my first ride I was a bit disappointed with how stiff and deflective they felt on the tight rocky single track. After the next couple rides as I got more comfortable and my pace picked up I am quite happy with them. I also went Tubliss with a bit lower pressure, about 12 front and 10 rear so that helped a lot compared to 14 in the front to keep from pinching a tube. Once the trails open up into a 3rd gear pace like more of a harescramble type section the forks work very well and almost feel a like they blow through the stroke too quick for me. Everyone has their own opinion on suspension but after watching DBC ride and say how terrible they were, I felt like I would post my take on it. I do think I will be sending them out to have them setup a little different but overall I am very happy with the bike as a whole and the suspension works good for the riding I am doing. 

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I run 10 front and 4 rear with Tubliss. Probably riding more technical trails though.

The low pressure tends to smooth things out a bit too.

I might try lighter ICS springs though or the progressive ones and see what it does. Otherwise off to Steve.

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2 hours ago, Ud_Luz said:

I run 10 front and 4 rear with Tubliss. Probably riding more technical trails though.

The low pressure tends to smooth things out a bit too.

I might try lighter ICS springs though or the progressive ones and see what it does. Otherwise off to Steve.

Yep, I was told 2.0 was stock. Try going 1.4 at the lowest and this will smooth out the smaller hits. Simple swap that takes 30 minutes and a cup of fluid.

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ON my Showa 47 mm twin chamber forks, I've played around w/ 2.2, 1.9, 1.6, & 1.4 ICS.

This is my  dyno butt on this:

The 1.4 imo feels like a very linear open chamber fork. The stroke moves up and down quite easily, w/ little resitance to bottoming out. The 1.6 is like the 1.4, except it gets more progressively firmer near the last 3" of travel. 1.9 keeps the stroke higher up, and the fork action is faster acting, and rarely bottoms at all. The 2.2 is firm everywhere, w/ very high progressive resistance to it bottoming out.

Edited by jeddclampette
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23 minutes ago, jeddclampette said:

ON my Showa 47 mm twin chamber forks, I've played around w/ 2.2, 1.9, 1.6, & 1.4 ICS.

This is my  dyno butt on this:

The 1.4 imo feels like a very linear open chamber fork. The stroke moves up and down quite easily, w/ little resitance to bottoming out. The 1.6 is like the 1.4, except it gets more progressively firmer near the last 3" of travel. 1.9 keeps the stroke higher up, and the fork action is faster acting, and rarely bottoms at all. The 2.2 is firm everywhere, w/ very high progressive resistance to it bottoming out.

If 1.4 bottoms easily then you adjust the oil height. You also can use 1/2 rate firmer main spring to keep up in the stroke if needed. I look for a fork to be as plush as possible going slow and hold up in the stroke at speeds. CC forks are very capable of doing this with much less compromise.

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yes, adding more oil will firm up the bottoming,

but i was trying to show comparisons of each ics  while keeping everything else a constant.

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1 minute ago, jeddclampette said:

yes, adding more oil will firm up the bottoming,

but i was trying to show comparisons of each ics  while keeping everything else a constant.

Understood. Simple fix is swapping a different ICS but changing other items will enhance the plushness the lower rate ICS provides. If you're fast gotta watch too low of a rate ICS as it will cavitate the oil.

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I've read that the stock ics is 2.1kg. I just put in a set of the progressive rate ones from merge racing and will report back this weekend. Also used maxima 5wt fork fluid which seems thinner then the kyb stuff that came out. Either way last weekend with .5kg springs comp all the way out and rebound 14 out I felt the bike rode real nice. First ride without getting arm pump since I got it.

Edited by NjBetaRider
Wrong spring description
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2 hours ago, NjBetaRider said:

I've read that the stock ics is 2.1kg. I just put in a set of the progressive rate ones from merge racing and will report back this weekend. Also used maxima 5wt fork fluid which seems thinner then the kyb stuff that came out. Either way last weekend with .5kg springs comp all the way out and rebound 14 out I felt the bike rode real nice. First ride without getting arm pump since I got it.

The factory-fill fork oil is whale-blubber compared to the fish oil that the forks work well with. And that's all KYBs ... Yamaha, TM, GasGas (may it rest in peace), Sherco, Beta, Kawasaki, Honda ...

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The factory-fill fork oil is whale-blubber compared to the fish oil that the forks work well with. And that's all KYBs ... Yamaha, TM, GasGas (may it rest in peace), Sherco, Beta, Kawasaki, Honda ...

Would you prefer to use KYB K2c over the 01?

 

Yet to see the shim stacks on these Beta KYBs, anyone have a link?

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4 minutes ago, kxlubber said:


Would you prefer to use KYB K2c over the 01?

If you allow me, I prefer to not use KYB oil. There are still worst big-name suspension oils but I would prefer an oil that comes from a reputable lubricants manufacturer.... 

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28 minutes ago, kxlubber said:

Would you prefer to use KYB K2c over the 01?

 

Yet to see the shim stacks on these Beta KYBs, anyone have a link?

We prefer the 01M for forks and K2C for shocks. You can be sure that KYB (and Showa) are supported by major lubricant companies in their development.

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Don't change ICS springs, they are for oil stabilization.  Do you let N2 out of your shock to tune it?  My brother had a big name tuner make a total mess out of a set of KYBs with softer ICS.  I have a great Beta/KYB setup for NJ / PA rocks.  From what I can tell by brief comparison these new bikes have a bit too much preload.   From experience, drop preload,  4.5-4.6 spring, single stage base,  light bleed stack, .38 - .4mm float.   Amsoil Shock Therapy Lite.  

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2 hours ago, GP said:

Don't change ICS springs, they are for oil stabilization.  Do you let N2 out of your shock to tune it?  My brother had a big name tuner make a total mess out of a set of KYBs with softer ICS.  I have a great Beta/KYB setup for NJ / PA rocks.  From what I can tell by brief comparison these new bikes have a bit too much preload.   From experience, drop preload,  4.5-4.6 spring, single stage base,  light bleed stack, .38 - .4mm float.   Amsoil Shock Therapy Lite.  

Stop talking sense as usual will you :) Good to see you back GP. 

MM 

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3 hours ago, GP said:

Don't change ICS springs, they are for oil stabilization.  Do you let N2 out of your shock to tune it?  My brother had a big name tuner make a total mess out of a set of KYBs with softer ICS.  I have a great Beta/KYB setup for NJ / PA rocks.  From what I can tell by brief comparison these new bikes have a bit too much preload.   From experience, drop preload,  4.5-4.6 spring, single stage base,  light bleed stack, .38 - .4mm float.   Amsoil Shock Therapy Lite.  

Hey GP welcome back. 

How do you measure preload on kyb sss? One way would be to assemble the fork without the spring perch, measure the distance from the top of the spring to the ring that secures the spring perch on the cartridge and then subtract this from the spring perch height (taking into account the 1 or 2mm that the sp/perch goes over the ring, if it does, I can't remember I am confusing this with ds sphere). But is there any other way?

Ps: and how would you take down preload? Filing/machining the top side of the perch? 

Edited by dirtbird

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Hey GP welcome back. 
How do you measure preload on kyb sss? One way would be to assemble the fork without the spring perch, measure the distance from the top of the spring to the ring that secures the spring perch on the cartridge and then subtract this from the spring perch height (taking into account the 1 or 2mm that the sp/perch goes over the ring, if it does, I can't remember I am confusing this with ds sphere). But is there any other way?
Ps: and how would you take down preload? Filing/machining the top side of the perch? 
It's pretty easy dirt bird. Fit the spring perch to the cartridge fit the Springs into the fork put the cartridge in loose. Fully compressed the outer tube measure from the top of the outer tube to a point on the top cap. Then fit The Rebound adjuster to the bottom of the cartridge rod, screw it into the fork lug and remeasure that's your preload. As far as adjusting goes I machine the top edge off the spring perch. IMG_20190713_090855_01.jpg
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For those buying springs I got just a set through Race Tech. The springs come short vs the originals and have a pack of washers included for setting preload/spring length.

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9 hours ago, GP said:

Don't change ICS springs, they are for oil stabilization.  Do you let N2 out of your shock to tune it?  My brother had a big name tuner make a total mess out of a set of KYBs with softer ICS.  I have a great Beta/KYB setup for NJ / PA rocks.  From what I can tell by brief comparison these new bikes have a bit too much preload.   From experience, drop preload,  4.5-4.6 spring, single stage base,  light bleed stack, .38 - .4mm float.   Amsoil Shock Therapy Lite.  

I was about to say the same thing but you do it so much more eloquently.😁

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On a side note I think Wp got it right when the used a bladder instead of a spring that's why I run these.mx-tech-e7.jpg.99f47de017946952c28b6c0d77c51f63.jpg

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Yes I measure everything apart and for preload I cut the spring perches.  You can't go crazy with this though as you need the L/D to keep the perch from rocking on the cartridge.  A few mm has been fine, I shortened mine 4mm for 4mm preload.  If the cartridge has an alternative ring groove farther up, you can cut and split (carefully) the retainer,  move the ring up, replace with a removable retainer from JBI and shim as required.

These forks can be firm, controlled, and not abusive at the same time riding rocks all day at a good pace, and I'm no kid.   The myth that CC forks are just stiff and OC better for woods is bullshit by people that can't tune them or want to sell OC forks. 

Now, not sure what the new Beta KYB is like but my new blue bike has a larger cartridge and much different stiffer specs,  plus the leaf spring mid valve.  Gonna have to model that one as previous data does not apply. 

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