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Drop-Bear

80% rider. 20% bike, is absolute rubbish

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Convince me I'm wrong :excuseme:

I'll start the debate with this. If it was 80% rider, 20% bike. I'd suggest bike setup would be mostly just a complete waste of time.

If you want to play, play the ball, not the man. It's a debate, not an argument.

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A good rider can work around most short comings of  any bike, its much nicer when everything is right though.  if your racing supercross etc  the bike setup  better be right or bad things are likely to happen

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15 minutes ago, rocco61 said:

A good rider can work around most short comings of  any bike, its much nicer when everything is right though.  if your racing supercross etc  the bike setup  better be right or bad things are likely to happen

If you're talking about the elite level. I disagree.
K-Rok couldn't ride around something as simple as triple clamps. But, when he got the setup right, went back to OEM clamps, he was simply unbeatable. The bike setup, just one small change, made all the difference. There was no change to the actual rider. Other than him having more confidence in/on the bike.
If the bike isn't right, spot on, they'll never have the confidence it takes to win.

Top level riders will notice a small change in their tire pressures. I.e a pea under their beds mattress :D
 

Flow, true flow, requires the rider and the bike, to work together as one. Hence 50/50. When you get the flow, your bike will just feel like an extension of your body.

I've only experienced true flow once in my life. But there's no better feeling.

Edited by Drop-Bear
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You should post this in ‘Pro racing’....lol.  I say it’s mostly rider unless the bike is a crf230 😂  But I certainty would never downplay the importance of a confidence inspiring bike and set-up.  It’s huge!  That said, once I’m basically satisfied with the bike, and say if I have a grand to throw at the bike, I would far rather spend that grand on gas, oil, and coaching rather than performance parts.......so long as the suspension is good, control layout is comfortable, and engine’s power curve suits one’s style...  

 

For someone down at my level, having a confident bike setup can really help you push through the next level and improve.  The guys at the elite level they CAN rock anything, but in competition where even hundredths of a second count, a small change to the bike can be huge.  Some guys switch teams and start dominating suddenly.  This could be attributed to the overall team, or even a change of environment......but also could be the bike.

 

 

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A good mate of mine had a DRZ400, this was around about 2005. He made that bike look good, had a nice riding style. I wanted one, then I rode his. I couldn't ride it, a week would not have made any difference. It was the bike, not the rider :D.

I'm far from an elite level rider, but, for me, the bike makes all the difference.

I mean, I can ride any bike, but I'm talking about actual riding.

Edited by Drop-Bear
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Posted (edited)

 

The bike becomes important when the rider is racing people of similar skill.   But when we're talking about pros and top A racers, they'd beat most B and C racers on a YZ85 regardless of what the B and C racers were riding.  

Here's another thing to think about.   At a recent Sprint Enduro I did, pros and A riders were completing the enduro test in 8 minutes.   C riders were more like 18 minutes.  If you put the pro on a YZ85, I bet his time would be within 1 minute of that 8 minutes.   If you put a C riders on a factory bike, I bet his time would be within 1 minute of that 18 minutes.

Doc

Edited by Doc_d
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I've always had my suspension setup for MX, and when I was racing MX, that setup was fine for off road. I'd never had a bike setup for off road, after building my 144, I was eventually out riding the suspension, so had to get it tuned. The difference in my riding was staggering.

Another mate, on a 2010 KTM250 EXC. Had been riding about 2 yrs, was always at the back of the pack/group. One day, we all go for a ride, I come up behind him, but can't get passed. I'm like "WTF is going on here". I just sat behind him, until the next break, his pace was fine for me. I asked him what was going on, he said "Oh, I took my bike to get the suspension tuned". I took mine to the same tuner :D

I typically sit in 2nd on a group ride. That's on a 2T. I bought a new RMZ250. After about the 5th ride, my mates pleaded with me to get back on the 2T's 😂.
"From chocolate, to hard boiled lollies".

Edited by Drop-Bear

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49 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

I've only experienced true flow once in my life. But there's no better feeling.

generally how many blue meanies does this normally take?  

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2 minutes ago, burntvalves said:

generally how many blue meanies does this normally take?  

As in a 7/11 blu meanie :excuseme:

 

Anyway, I watched an Interview with Chad Reed the other day, one of his comments was that It's not 80% rider and 20% bike anymore.

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7 hours ago, Drop-Bear said:

I'd suggest It's 50/50 😉

You're bang on 10K posts 😎

Im right at 50/50, If your are out of shape, and most of us are, then its up to the bike to make up for one's short comings. If you have a bike that, runs like crap, suspension that sucks, and breaks that work once in a while, then the bike sucks. It will tire you out during a moto/enduro and you will probably loose or not finish. We all cant our keep youthful bodies forever, and screw those info mericals saying you can look like the skinny, veiny, crack head gymnist yelling at our lardy asses. Fiddy/ Fiddy is right in the ball park....

Edited by M E T A L A C I D
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More like 90% rider, 10% bike.

Bad rider on the best bike will be smoled by the best rider of a poor bike. Several pros have done this very test (see YouTube). BRP smoking all these local procal pros, he's using turn signals, beeping his horn, flashin high beams as the flys by. Comical.

Early in my roadracing career, I met an up and coming rider, Freddie Spencer. He spanked the entire field at Loudon on a beat up old Honda

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1 hour ago, William1 said:

More like 90% rider, 10% bike.

Bad rider on the best bike will be smoled by the best rider of a poor bike. Several pros have done this very test (see YouTube). BRP smoking all these local procal pros, he's using turn signals, beeping his horn, flashin high beams as the flys by. Comical.

Early in my roadracing career, I met an up and coming rider, Freddie Spencer. He spanked the entire field at Loudon on a beat up old Honda

Did a Harescramble in MN once the whole A class got beat by John Martin he was riding an XR 100

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For sure the rider makes the bike, seen it many many times. William is probably right that it's over 80%.

I seen a pro ride a fast average Joe's bike, Let's just say there was nothing wrong with the bike. It was damn fast 😂

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It’s 80/20 assuming the bike is maintained. Theirs a difference between riding a 1992 xr250 that’s in decent shape vs one that’s clapped out. Sometimes I see these old guys on old bikes ripping but you will notice their bikes are taken care of.

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3 hours ago, elrontx said:

It’s 80/20 assuming the bike is maintained. Theirs a difference between riding a 1992 xr250 that’s in decent shape vs one that’s clapped out. Sometimes I see these old guys on old bikes ripping but you will notice their bikes are taken care of.

The older one gets, the more one values the dollar, and works for his stuff. Mommy and daddy wont always by a person a bike, and when it breaks, or gets a boo-boo, they wont pay for its repair. It's on us. Thats why us old tymers take care of and value our toys...

IMG_3504.JPG

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36 minutes ago, M E T A L A C I D said:

The older one gets, the more one values the dollar, and works for his stuff. Mommy and daddy wont always by a person a bike, and when it breaks, or gets a boo-boo, they wont pay for its repair. It's on us. Thats why us old tymers take care of and value our toys...

IMG_3504.JPG

Nice, that’s your main ride?

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I have a 20 beta 300 that I have been adjusting the suspension since new. At first springs, fluid level, and preload then lately valving. Ad the suspension has improved I have gotten faster and more confident on the bike. Now at 35 I doubt that it's less my skill improving and mostly the bike. So anyway I have a friend that's the same age on a yz250 who is constantly trying to go faster. We swapped bikes not long ago and immediately realized his bike is holding him back. Bars bent down, suspension overly plush and gearing way out yet he doesnt want to attempt to make any changes to it. A large percentage is the bike and then with a well setup bike you can improve your skills.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Drop-Bear said:

Convince me I'm wrong :excuseme:

I'll start the debate with this. If it was 80% rider, 20% bike. I'd suggest bike setup would be mostly just a complete waste of time.

If you want to play, play the ball, not the man. It's a debate, not an argument.

Simple way to solve this in your case...

Just have someone film you and you'll clearly see it's 90% bike and 10% rider for you.   :prof:

 

:cheers:

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