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Drop-Bear

80% rider. 20% bike, is absolute rubbish

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28 minutes ago, Sycamore said:

Maybe.  Lots of variables to racing and it's why we like it so much.   Maybe he did click with the bike, maybe the team was better, maybe the stars aligned, maybe the other guys werent as good, maybe on and on.

Webb said it was the bike.  3 laps on a KTM that was basically Marv's bike, and he was more comfortable than he ever was on blue.

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12 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Webb would go undefeated on a 300 TPI.

lol, he wouldnt want to risk a mechanical!!

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4 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

Webb said it was the bike.  3 laps on a KTM that was basically Marv's bike, and he was more comfortable than he ever was on blue.

Thinking a paid rider is going to say that whether it's true or not.  lol

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, Sycamore said:

Thinking a paid rider is going to say that whether it's true or not.  lol

Was Webb intentionally tanking on Yamaha, just biding his time, because he only wanted to be a SX champion on a KTM?

Edited by redrider144
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Story Time!

We have a great trail system in Michigan, and a lot of talented MX riders that also enjoy riding woods.

Years ago a bunch of guys (including a few top State A class riders) were preparing to ride a loop, and the staging area was Jeff Stanton's place. Jeff was unable to get his CR250 ready, so instead of making everyone wait until he finished his bike, he opted to ride his wife's CR80.

Some of the other riders grumbled, thinking they would be constantly stopping on the trail for "a guy on a little bike".

Without bothering to change the set-up on his wife's CR80, Stanton joined the other riders as they headed into the woods...   and promptly put a gap on all of them. He was basically untouchable the entire day; riding an underpowered, ill-fitting bike, against some of the best riders in the state.

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2 hours ago, Sycamore said:

True but it does illustrate the point where the bike does/might matter.  I think certain bikes just click with a rider.  For example I click with yamaha's.  I cant put my finger on it but they do it for me.  IF they ever came up with a bike that was more suitable for what I do I'd sell my ktm in a second.

But again my point is knowing yourself and what bike works for YOU on a given terrain is also the rider's responsibility.  So I give the rider the nod even in bike choice.

It's a 100% rider.

May 'feel' better and you may click with it....but that is certainly doesn't mean it's faster.  I'd actually bet in many cases a bike that feels good is the opposite of goes fast....

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3 minutes ago, CaptDan said:

Story Time!

We have a great trail system in Michigan, and a lot of talented MX riders that also enjoy riding woods.

Years ago a bunch of guys (including a few top State A class riders) were preparing to ride a loop, and the staging area was Jeff Stanton's place. Jeff was unable to get his CR250 ready, so instead of making everyone wait until he finished his bike, he opted to ride his wife's CR80.

Some of the other riders grumbled, thinking they would be constantly stopping on the trail for "a guy on a little bike".

Without bothering to change the set-up on his wife's CR80, Stanton joined the other riders as they headed into the woods...   and promptly put a gap on all of them. He was basically untouchable the entire day; riding an underpowered, ill-fitting bike, against some of the best riders in the state.

For real?  Not calling BS as that is slightly believable, but I'd think riding a CR80 all day for a full grown man falls in the "I'm doing this to prove a point" category, I'd be surprised if a top pro like Jeff would do that...being all scrunched over like that all day?

What I don't doubt is that he may be able too....for a few minutes at least

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10 minutes ago, CaptDan said:

Story Time!

6x National Champion, and we're supposed to be surprised he could use a CR80 to wax a group of not-national-champions?

Do you think Jeff could use a CR80 to wax Kailub Russell if KR is on his own race bike?

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try it sometime.

get on a track with an older bike and time yourself.

Then, time yourself with a modern bike...there will only be seconds difference per lap between bikes.

But, if your buddy always gaps you by a few turns per lap...say, 10 seconds per lap...changing bikes won't make a difference. 😀

For better riders, who are better skilled and better matched, seconds matter.

Edited by SlowDinoDog
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I believe it cause back when i was 18-19 my gf little bro had 2 cr80s. I would ride one with him all the time and could haul ass on it ever at 6' 190

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Only thing shocking about that story is he didn't have a garage full of other bikes ready 😂

Ever watch some of those pit bike classes at local races, some of those dudes can get with it on those little things 

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Story time!

There is a very old photo of Roger DeCoster doing a "cross-up" over a jump, similar to the picture below. The photo was reprinted far and wide, and it helped make Mr. DeCoster a household name, along with MX, cross-up, and Team Suzuki.

Years later, closer inspection of the photo revealed that the bike Roger was riding was not his factory Suzuki; it was a clapped-out Yamaha DT1 250.

It turns out that during a day of testing at a local track, a group of riders (local kids) had collected around the Team Suzuki pit. One of the kids said to Roger something like, "The only reason you can do those cool cross-ups is because you're on a factory bike".

At which point Roger asked if he could ride the kid's bike.

Roger cut a few laps on the old Yamaha, threw a few cross-ups for the kids, and a photographer caught the moment.

Roger then returned the Yam back to the kid. The point was made; it's the rider, not the bike.

image.png.96e7e76c8f957b6ad2a2046c0a48018b.png

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I remember an article in Dirt Bike magazine a few years ago.  They pitted James Stewart against a club level "pro" racer.  They started out on identical YZ450's and gradually worked James down bikes.  It wasn't until James was on a TTR125 that the club pro beat him.  Of course this was a stupid magazine stunt and a Yamaha advertising ploy but still.

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The 80/20 battleground..I'd say, 80% of the time when a rider blames the bike, only 20% of the time he's right...😏..

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8 hours ago, Sycamore said:

Perfect for what?  Perfect for what you do I'm guessing?  We dont all do the same thing or click with the same power.  The modern tech has the 150 ktms, at pretty much the same weight as 300s? 

You are right, you guys are way out of my league, what would I know. 

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On 7/2/2020 at 11:16 PM, Drop-Bear said:

Convince me I'm wrong :excuseme:

I'll start the debate with this. If it was 80% rider, 20% bike. I'd suggest bike setup would be mostly just a complete waste of time.

If you want to play, play the ball, not the man. It's a debate, not an argument.

Yawn. Support your accersion and I'll believe you. It's your position to support. 8 pages in and you haven't even started. 

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10 hours ago, M E T A L A C I D said:

You should have been on a nice dialed in 250 two stroke, and he should have been on a xr-80 with no engine. Then you would have gotten him.😉

Thanks. But, unlikely :D

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7 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

Thanks. But, unlikely :D

Bear, dont sell your self short. He would have to push the enginless frame, and you will just blast by. Just remember to bring your kidney belt young man!😉

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On 7/7/2020 at 1:44 AM, Doctor Impostor said:

Most geniuses I know aren't academics. They are maintenance guys, parts counter workers, a couple grow weed, one is a Franciscan Monk. I do know a couple of off the charts guys who are research scientists, but one of them was an Alaskan fisherman and a marine engineer too. All of them know how to get shit done. I have college professor friends and clients, most of them are pretty useless but really good at snakepit political games. I think only plebes make a correlation between traditional educational achievements and raw intelligence. Einstein was a dropout.

Had the chance to speak with one very smart cookie.

Engineer and boat builder. Not only had he technical nouse but could operate any range of tools to actually bring his ideas to life.

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