STOP WATCH NATIONALS

[777654321]

Every year we see footage from Swap Moto and other sites showing all the big names training at Glen Helen. They use the stop watch to see who's doing what and dial in their own rider. For a few years I've watched all the footage available cause it's the best riding and training.  What's even more ironic is everyone's riding and training there but the best. The best is at home doing his own thing.  I often wonder if Tomac doesnt do outdoor social days to not allow his competition to see his pace. Just a interesting look at everyone doing the same thing every year but one,,,

[Guest]

Tomac should show up and troll them them at a pace of -5 to -10 seconds a lap . 

[00boob]

1 minute ago, Biff Barf said:

Tomac should show up and troll them them at a pace of -5 to -10 seconds a lap . 

BUT... Then the other riders would see his lines!  All points are moot any way, because, Monster Energy/ Feld Fix    (and altitude)

[Guest]

They would see his lines , just unable to go as fast through them .

[00boob]

3 minutes ago, Biff Barf said:

They would see his lines , just unable to go as fast through them .

Not after they followed him around a few laps  Gained the confidence to try said line at his pace.

[mick34]

54 minutes ago, 00boob said:

Not after they followed him around a few laps  Gained the confidence to try said line at his pace.

Was listening to an old pulpmx last night, they had tomac and Tyler bowers 

and they were talking  about lines.

Bowers mentioned about how he tried to follow tomacs lines when he got passed by him.

He said even using his lines he could not use them like tomac does, slamming off stuff and using ruts 

[00boob]

1 minute ago, mick34 said:

Was listening to an old pulpmx last night, they had tomac and Tyler bowers 

and they were talking  about lines.

Bowers mentioned about how he tried to follow tomacs lines when he got passed by him.

He said even using his lines he could not use them like tomac does, slamming off stuff and using ruts 

Yeah he definitely rides with aplomb!  

[redrider144]

7 hours ago, mick34 said:

He said even using his lines he could not use them like tomac does, slamming off stuff and using ruts 

Yeah Tomac appears to use the brute force method a lot.  Seems to work for him.

[ah665]

I'm far from a Tomac fanboy, but I do think it is pretty badass how he does his own thing and then shows up and mows everyone, at outdoors. But I can't blame him, Cali sucks.

[lowmass]

ET uses the "lay flat" method. The lower and flatter you are on the bike, the more you can get away with at speed.

Everyone else is more "upright" over the bike. Upright style demands more perfection at speed and thus is less forgiving of mistakes which automatically results in less overall speed over the course of a moto.

Lay flat allows you to smash your way through about anything. Upright uses less energy but is more demanding of precision, a hard thing to do consistently  well everywhere all the time.

The problem with ridding lower and flatter over the bike is its fitness demands. It takes more energy, strength, stamina, to ride crouched over that far all the time. Few have the stamina to ride this way.

2015 before slam down was ETs best example of the lay flat style. 

[redrider144]

Just now, lowmass said:

ET uses the "lay flat" method.

I've never watched his riding position very closely.  Does he not ride fully committed over the bars like JS7 and RC?

[lowmass]

I dont think hes as far over bars as JS was. Hes simply lower, flatter more often. The physics of low , flat, centered are such that your not being pulled and pushed back and forth like you are when you ride more upright. Its a brute force method that keeps your body mass from extremes that are hard to handle when things get gnarly. This style actually is less demanding of arms BUT more demanding of legs, back.

In skiing they call it a "bombproof" stance. Its crouched a bit more. Not as efficient as standing more upright BUT it allows you to stay in control even when your a bit out of control . Result is allows you to go faster IF and this is a big IF, you have the legs for it. 

[KennyMc]

9 hours ago, 00boob said:

Not after they followed him around a few laps  Gained the confidence to try said line at his pace.

I would guess they try that during the race......yea, how’s that worked out for them the last 3 years :LOL:

[ah665]

For sure is not over the bars like JS was. Also, JS wasn't so much a steer with the rear guy, like Eli is. He is similar to RV in that respect.

[lowmass]

yea the check out his line thing is bigger than many realize. You may not be able to run his pace BUT you can learn huge by trying to ride a fast guys line. You can understand your problems better by trying the fast line than watching the fast rider.

Fast guys line is a line that carry's more momentum. Momentum is the way. Learn momentum  and you will shave seconds AND use less energy

[lowmass]

18 minutes ago, ah665 said:

For sure is not over the bars like JS was. Also, JS wasn't so much a steer with the rear guy, like Eli is. He is similar to RV in that respect.

I might actually say JS was on the front, RV was on the rear, and ET is more locked in the middle but layed down flatter than both

[ah665]

Just now, lowmass said:

I might actually say JS was on the front, RV was on the rear, and ET is more locked in the middle but layed down flatter than both

Yes, sounds pretty accurate, to me. JS was front bias and really relied on the front end to steer, which really got him into trouble on the 10 YZ. But Eli for sure explodes into turns and uses the rear to steer, similar to RV, but his positioning isn't rearward in general, like RV sorta was....at least from my observation.

[MotorBoatin]

10 hours ago, 777654321 said:

Every year we see footage from Swap Moto and other sites showing all the big names training at Glen Helen. They use the stop watch to see who's doing what and dial in their own rider. For a few years I've watched all the footage available cause it's the best riding and training.  What's even more ironic is everyone's riding and training there but the best. The best is at home doing his own thing.  I often wonder if Tomac doesnt do outdoor social days to not allow his competition to see his pace. Just a interesting look at everyone doing the same thing every year but one,,,

Or Tomac trains at altitude so he can kick everyone's ass because everyone else trains at 1,000 feet 

[lowmass]

yea I agree

Also I notice that ET  seems to be on the gas earlier in some turns than most. I see roost starting at the beginning of turns with him more often than others

He seems to be more leaned at the beginning of turn wich would mean he has to power earlier or will low side. When its right the turn is very fast

Edited July 10, 2020 by lowmass

[redrider144]

30 minutes ago, ah665 said:

JS was front bias and really relied on the front end to steer, which really got him into trouble on the 10 YZ.

It got him into trouble on every bike.  There's a razor thin margin of error when you're riding that far committed over the front of the bike.  It was never of question of IF he was going to get chucked over the bars, it was a question of WHEN.