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KatoKonvert

Beta2Stroke EnduroSpec MXT Lucky carts for Beta 2020

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Posted (edited)

I decided on these for my Sachs oc’s after reading every review I could find. I’ve had KYB’s on 2 x Beta RR’s - they were great, but I wanted to try something different & support an innovative company.

Attached is a dyno run from a 2020 RR ZF fork - it objectively shows that the Comp adjusters do absolutely nothing. I like the idea of full adjustment for C & R and every review I’ve seen says the Lucky’s are plush initially then firm up well through the mid. I ride rocky s/t that’s a bit tech so fork action is the most important part of a bike’s set-up for me. I’ve found the ZF fork is ok at very low speeds but it becomes harsh in the mid-stroke after multiple square edge hits at speed. 

The carts came pre-valved based on my inputs, so keen to see how they perform. Install was pretty simple - about an hour. Bleeding was straightforward after I watched the Slavens video on FB.  

Riding Sunday with a buddy who has a stock 2020 RR300 - we’ll swap and assess across the same terrain. Should be interesting..

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Edited by KatoKonvert
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I'm about to pickup my 2020 sachs OC suspension as well from Warren this week. He's doing the luckys up front and a bladder & revalve in the back. Im pretty stoked to see this thread! 

I gave up on trying to convince myself the front adjusters really did anything - seeing the dyno data is great. I've noticed the same action up front on the stock stuff which was really disappointing because the bike otherwise just wants to go fast!

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I had Warren install Luckys on my ‘19  300rr over the winter. 

Im happy with them. Needless to say it’s a huge improvement over the stock OC. 

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1 hour ago, Hammy. said:

Needless to say it’s a huge improvement over the OEM VALVED OC. 

Fixed for you. 

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7 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

Are you guys getting your uppers hard coated  by Warren?

 The Sachs like to eat themselves.

For clarity, not all Sachs are this way, the 2019+ RE silver tubes are harder (much harder) than the black were. 

 

I sent 3 sets out for hard coating, even the set that @Hammy. had come back from Warren after MXT inserts installed had wear so we hard coated all 3 sets. We etched each fork tube under the clamp area to identify which forks were which with a pick tool, and the black were easy to scribe. The silver were very hard to scribe initials into compared to the black. Total type III hard coat black cost, $190 for 6 tubes. Holding up very well. 

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33 minutes ago, redhurricane said:

Fixed for you. 

"stock OC" = oem valved.

😉

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Johnny Depp said:

Are you guys getting your uppers hard coated  by Warren?

 The Sachs like to eat themselves.

He has 2 of the updated silver tubes mentioned by @redhurricane on hand at all times these days. He'll make the call on whether or not the black tubes need replaced and switch them out so you don't have a delay if desired. I told him do what you need to!

Fingers crossed the 2020 tubes I gave him with a measly 55 hours are good. When I did the first oil change there wasn't any obvious indicator of metal flake.

Edited by mobile chernobyl
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1 hour ago, redhurricane said:

For clarity, not all Sachs are this way, the 2019+ RE silver tubes are harder (much harder) than the black were. 

 

I sent 3 sets out for hard coating, even the set that @Hammy. had come back from Warren after MXT inserts installed had wear so we hard coated all 3 sets. We etched each fork tube under the clamp area to identify which forks were which with a pick tool, and the black were easy to scribe. The silver were very hard to scribe initials into compared to the black. Total type III hard coat black cost, $190 for 6 tubes. Holding up very well. 

Honestly that's some cheap insurance. Mine only have 8 hours on them now and I think I'm going to send them out to be done.

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1 hour ago, redhurricane said:

For clarity, not all Sachs are this way, the 2019+ RE silver tubes are harder (much harder) than the black were. 

 

I sent 3 sets out for hard coating, even the set that @Hammy. had come back from Warren after MXT inserts installed had wear so we hard coated all 3 sets. We etched each fork tube under the clamp area to identify which forks were which with a pick tool, and the black were easy to scribe. The silver were very hard to scribe initials into compared to the black. Total type III hard coat black cost, $190 for 6 tubes. Holding up very well. 

So none required replacement? How many hours did they have. Asking for a friend...

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9 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

So none required replacement? How many hours did they have. Asking for a friend...

My 2018 black set had wear and were replaced with 2018 RE silver tubes, which I then had sent out for hard coating along with my Daughter's forks, and Hammy's forks. Came back in a real nice satin black finish:

 

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34 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

So none required replacement? How many hours did they have. Asking for a friend...

Mine had wear at 30 hrs.

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1 hour ago, Hammy. said:

Mine had wear at 30 hrs.

wear at less than 20 hrs here ... terribly black oil at less than 10 ... Beta replaced with new race tubes, i sent them to Steve immediately for coating. been down that road before, coating was the ultimate fix.

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Review coming soon! Riding some fun stuff this weekend in the central mtns of Colorado - ill definitely know more about how these feel Sunday night!

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Posted (edited)

First ride 3hrs in rocky s/t yesterday. The first thing I noticed was greatly improved front wheel traction. The next thing I noticed was that the clickers work - 4 clicks out on Comp from my recommended 14 made a huge difference. The third thing I noticed was lighter steering. Nice.

I did find the mid-stroke to be a bit spiky - which surprised me as every review says how compliant these carts are right through the stroke. With this in mind, today I double-checked my install & found that the brake side cap had come loose off the rod & my oil levels were way too high. Perhaps I incorrectly bled the carts first up? Seemed ok. Anyway, a high oil level may explain the mid-stroke stiffness over baby-head square edge sandstone boulders. Maybe some cavitation explains it, too!

I checked and then re-set the oil level after bleeding carefully using Warren’s method - 120mm for me. I also had the wrong spacers up top - all the flat spacers are supposed to be under the spring - my kit came with no instructions. The biggest spacer up top gives me exactly 7mm pre-load - my recommended setting. 

General - the build quality appears excellent, EnduroSpec service & communication is very good but delivery time to Australia was severely impacted by COVID-19 - totally out of EnduroSpec’s control.

Already a marked improvement over stock, I am looking forward to continuing the tweaking to set these carts up for me. I’m pretty sure they will be superb when dialled in. 
 

Edited by KatoKonvert
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3 hours ago, KatoKonvert said:

First ride 3hrs in rocky s/t yesterday. The first thing I noticed was greatly improved front wheel traction. The next thing I noticed was that the clickers work - 4 clicks out on Comp from my recommended 14 made a huge difference. The third thing I noticed was lighter steering. Nice.

I did find the mid-stroke to be a bit spiky - which surprised me as every review says how compliant these carts are right through the stroke. With this in mind, today I double-checked my install & found that the brake side cap had come loose off the rod & my oil levels were way too high. Perhaps I incorrectly bled the carts first up? Seemed ok. Anyway, a high oil level may explain the mid-stroke stiffness over baby-head square edge sandstone boulders. Maybe some cavitation explains it, too!

I checked and then re-set the oil level after bleeding carefully using Warren’s method - 120mm for me. I also had the wrong spacers up top - all the flat spacers are supposed to be under the spring - my kit came with no instructions. The biggest spacer up top gives me exactly 7mm pre-load - my recommended setting. 

General - the build quality appears excellent, EnduroSpec service & communication is very good but delivery time to Australia was severely impacted by COVID-19 - totally out of EnduroSpec’s control.

Already a marked improvement over stock, I am looking forward to continuing the tweaking to set these carts up for me. I’m pretty sure they will be superb when dialled in. 
 

I thought these convert the fork to to a cc design? Wouldnt you fill the forks off of volume then or do these work differently? 

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3 hours ago, NjBetaRider said:

I thought these convert the fork to to a cc design? Wouldnt you fill the forks off of volume then or do these work differently? 

The EnduroSpec Gen 1 is not closed cartridge, although it outperforms most of them. There is now a Gen 2 Carbon for $200 more that is closed cartridge and has firmer valving specs. As of a few weeks ago there had never been one made for the Sachs OC forks, although MX Tech indicated they could do it. 

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7 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

The EnduroSpec Gen 1 is not closed cartridge, although it outperforms most of them. There is now a Gen 2 Carbon for $200 more that is closed cartridge and has firmer valving specs. As of a few weeks ago there had never been one made for the Sachs OC forks, although MX Tech indicated they could do it. 

Ok that makes sense now. I took my bike out yesterday with the kybs I swapped on to it and rode awesome but I dont think someone should have to go through that much trouble to get a upgrade from their sachs. These inserts look real promising and appear to be a quality product. I'm happy to see more feedback about them and hopefully mx tech continues to develop upgrades for the sachs. When I had contacted technical touch about the beta lugs they said there was a big demand for them right now and they were having trouble keeping up. That tells me there is a big market out there for people looking to improve over the std sachs forks.

The only thing that made me go the kyb route was my comfort level on working on them. If not I would have dropped some tech lucky inserts in with a hard coat on the tubes and probably been just as happy in the long run. Most likely for less money as well.

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On 7/18/2020 at 11:00 AM, KatoKonvert said:

First ride 3hrs in rocky s/t yesterday. The first thing I noticed was greatly improved front wheel traction. The next thing I noticed was that the clickers work - 4 clicks out on Comp from my recommended 14 made a huge difference. The third thing I noticed was lighter steering. Nice.

I did find the mid-stroke to be a bit spiky - which surprised me as every review says how compliant these carts are right through the stroke. With this in mind, today I double-checked my install & found that the brake side cap had come loose off the rod & my oil levels were way too high. Perhaps I incorrectly bled the carts first up? Seemed ok. Anyway, a high oil level may explain the mid-stroke stiffness over baby-head square edge sandstone boulders. Maybe some cavitation explains it, too!

I checked and then re-set the oil level after bleeding carefully using Warren’s method - 120mm for me. I also had the wrong spacers up top - all the flat spacers are supposed to be under the spring - my kit came with no instructions. The biggest spacer up top gives me exactly 7mm pre-load - my recommended setting. 

General - the build quality appears excellent, EnduroSpec service & communication is very good but delivery time to Australia was severely impacted by COVID-19 - totally out of EnduroSpec’s control.

Already a marked improvement over stock, I am looking forward to continuing the tweaking to set these carts up for me. I’m pretty sure they will be superb when dialled in. 
 

7mm spring preload (measured) is way too much for enduro riding and 2 stroke in general. 

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