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BOAB

colorado Shut down or limit travel on the passes to save them?

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Something has to be done. The crowds, and resultant damage are out of hand. Some local facebook groups are even shutting down, they think the exposure is a contributing factor. 

From this past weekend.

Resized_Screenshot_20200714-093631_Facebook.thumb.jpeg.03ee31b3d4ff9f33f6c893c93f0ec4fd.jpeg

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Park n ride the shuttles or take the gondola.   The existing infrastructure is a century old over used and it’s going to result capital expenditures to create a more Alps like experience.    Say goodbye to driving the Alpine Loops.    I haven’t been to Zion since the change but word is you can no longer drive through. 

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1 hour ago, BOAB said:

Something has to be done. The crowds, and resultant damage are out of hand. Some local facebook groups are even shutting down, they think the exposure is a contributing factor. 

From this past weekend.

Resized_Screenshot_20200714-093631_Facebook.thumb.jpeg.03ee31b3d4ff9f33f6c893c93f0ec4fd.jpeg

Damn Texans !!! 🤠🤠🤠

So besides the obvious idiot that decided to go explore the middle of that Alpine bog... do you also take issue with all the "sides of the trail parking"?

I mean tundra is tundra, but if there isn't a gravel parking lot near a scenic spot, then people are going "park along the curbs" - so they don't block the trail. With temps over 100 now down here in the Flatlands - you can expect more and more of them very soon....

You know, back in my day, sonny... before there was this "Facebook" - we had to rely on trail articles in Four Wheeler and Off Road & 4X4 - and those could be waaaay out of date... 🤣 (Pearl Pass was rated as "moderate" - and I just used just about every single square inch of Mitsu Montero skid plate on the climb up - good thing that POS was a rental... 😎

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What they've done with White Rim may be an option.  Limited amount of permits.

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4 minutes ago, BOAB said:

What they've done with White Rim may be an option.  Limited amount of permits.

What would be awesome is if you need a license plate & DL # to even apply for the permit.    Low clearance, rental, points on license, outstanding fines, & minors automatically rejected. 

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2 hours ago, BOAB said:

What they've done with White Rim may be an option.  Limited amount of permits.

But that means a manned kiosk at the bottom to monitor permits at every access point. I don’t see it happening. The way things are going with budget cuts and all I just see gates at the bottom or part of the way up with parking areas. 

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Now I'm not intentionally being ignorant here, but what's the big deal of parking along the side of the road? What's harm does using up another 10 feet of space on either side of the dirt road cause? I'm more curious than anything here. 

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29 minutes ago, elblanconaygro said:

Now I'm not intentionally being ignorant here, but what's the big deal of parking along the side of the road? What's harm does using up another 10 feet of space on either side of the dirt road cause? I'm more curious than anything here. 

Nothing, bunch of crusty crab NIMBY folk who can't adjust to change. Pave the whole thing and turn it into a theme park, who cares. Alpine Disney. 

Intentional ignorance is fun. 

Edited by Doctor Impostor

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Couldn’t agree more. Been going to Taylor Park for 20+ years and every year Tincup Pass, Cumberland Pass, Napoleon Pass and American Flag Mtn are more & more crowded. Now that Cottonwood Pass is paved, it’s going to be even worse. I only ride the single track trails but so many have been closed, it’s getting a bit repetitive. As much as I love the Taylor Park area,  I may be done making the 15hr trip. Pass closures or limits may be the only way to save them.

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8 hours ago, elblanconaygro said:

Now I'm not intentionally being ignorant here, but what's the big deal of parking along the side of the road? What's harm does using up another 10 feet of space on either side of the dirt road cause? I'm more curious than anything here. 

Ever hear of the word "aesthetic"?  It is a big part of the back country experience.  Living in the western US you would think you would understand this.

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I hate to say it, but find a way to make enforcement profitable and it will self regulate.....Until the profitable enforcement inevitably creates its own problems.

There could be a way for the parks service to make a boatload of cash in TP and AL at most, and a sustainable amount at least.  Just would require a bunch of BS that we would be pissed about too.

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9 hours ago, elblanconaygro said:

Now I'm not intentionally being ignorant here, but what's the big deal of parking along the side of the road? What's harm does using up another 10 feet of space on either side of the dirt road cause? I'm more curious than anything here. 

This isn’t your average country road, this is pristine alpine tundra that is easily and irreparably damaged causing major erosion every spring when 20+ feet of snow melts and runs off every year. The only way to repair it is thru closure, manual labor, and or glacial activity. And most of the people that are doing this are from out of state that don’t know any better or  don’t give a s%@t. And then when those tracks are seen be the next person every day thereafter it becomes 30’ wide and exponentially damaged and destroyed. The average person that doesn’t live here has no idea Of  the volume of people that are coming and doing whatever they want, wherever they want without any regard to their impact to the environment. While it breaks my heart to see this BS I don’t see any other alternative but closure to vehicles . If you want to see this beautiful area get your lazy ass out off the car and hike or ride a MTB. Best possible scenario for US is 2 wheel motorized access only, but there is a better chance of winning the lottery than that.

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15 hours ago, elblanconaygro said:

Now I'm not intentionally being ignorant here, but what's the big deal of parking along the side of the road? What's harm does using up another 10 feet of space on either side of the dirt road cause? I'm more curious than anything here. 

It matters because motorized is under siege by every Greenie group out there and their legion of couch surfing liberal youth who live for the righteousness.   

It matter because of the the wrong vehicles and/or Skilless Drivers cause a lot of daily closures up there.   Injuries are prevalent and that results in closures anywhere in the country.

Its also the “what does it matter” crowd that has to carve their Names, DOB,& Brand into the Aspen trees at every tailhead along the way.   

 

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Literally just got back from Lake City and we ran Engineer Pass, Cinnamon Pass and went up the American Basin (e.g. the picture BOAB is showing) on Saturday.  Yep completely f*ckin overrun.  Fortunately we found other places to go on Sunday, Monday and Tuesday, where we encountered almost no one on the trails (nope I wont tell).

We saw the driving all over the alpine tundra absolutely everywhere there were OHVs and Jeeps, and Toyotas and every other form of conveyance.   I politely mentioned to a number of people that they can get big fines for driving offroad and parking on the tundra (trust me there were plenty of wide spots where they could park not on the tundra and on rock).  They took it well at just said they just had no idea.  I think the "stay the trail" education must be done by the rental companies.  A lot of these people think it is literally like driving on the lawn at wherever they are from and it grows back quickly.  I pointed out for some of these people that some of the scars they were still seeing were probably 20-30 years old.  By the way, we also saw lots of tourists crawling all over the ghost town buildings (including their children).  Some of those are more than 100-150  years old and completely rotten.  Didnt stop them.  Also found people carving names and slogans into the old cedar wood in those ghost towns (I didnt catch them in the act...just saw the new graffiti).  I suppose I should be relieved that they didnt actually paint their names or their favorite politician name on the old buildings, but instead, just scratched into the wood.

As far as pulling off the side so people can get by....my answer is that if there is no room to stay/park on bare trail or road, then they shouldnt park there because there are too many people.  Find another wide spot on the trail to park where people can get by. You also see a lack of knowledge/etiquette from the OHVs in that they think they are being polite by pulling way over into the tundra and completely off the trail to let you by them....when the rule is really to just pull off on a wide spot or just enough to let people past you.  I certainly dont have time or energy to stop everyone of them and tell them to stop being so polite and only pull off partially.

I can also tell you that that trailhead that is shown in the picture is overrun due to the fact that it is for Handies Peak (a 14er that is class 1 e.g. easiest of the 14ers) and there is A LOT more parking further down the road to American Basin (of course it may have been full like the upper lot).

The whole problem is that wherever they allow OHVs to run unplated that is where the rental companies are renting LOTs of UTVs, ATVs, SXS's.  For example, unplated OHVs are not allowed on Hwy 149 (Slumgullion Pass) and therefore most of the OHV trails are unused that do not easily connect to town.  Rather than the rest of us having to reserve or limit running these trails, I think the rental companies should be limited on how many machines they can rent at a time and FORCED to educate their f*cktard customers to "STAY THE F*CKING TRAIL".  I'll even let them use my trademarked use of "STAY THE F*CKING TRAIL" for their educational videos.

<rant off>

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1 hour ago, Doctor Impostor said:

You guys act like there's a shortage of tundra on earth, there isn't. Alaska, Canada, Greenland, Iceland and Russia have all the tundra we'll ever need. Colorado tundra isn't special, it's just local. 

My thought ,  JMO .  EDUCATION . Teach people  the ramifications of destroying the Natural environment  ...   Once lost it is gone forever ...   The next generation is the loser here ....... 

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57 minutes ago, Lord Dogmeat said:

Ban side-by-sides and jeeps, problem solved.

There's already a thread for that!

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Never too many! Ban them till,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,forever!

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