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LukeBrinkerhoff

17’ 350rr no power when hot

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 Tried looking for this issue. Had race, after 2nd lap bike started loosing power, felt like I was trying to ride around in 4th instead of 2nd. You can feel the heat off the engine, but it never did boil coolant. I was moving fast enough for that matter. I would pull in the clutch on downhills to see if a brake was locking up. Not that either. Kinda cracks and pops, misses sometimes. Would idle just fine, and start right back up if I were to shut it off. Pulled into my pits for 20 minutes and took off to see if it would run better after it cooled, which it did, like nothing was ever wrong, finished that lap and went back to same issue once it got hot again.

 

 Looking for ideas, I don’t feel like the injector is the issue, kinda feel like something with the TPS. Or the pump in the tank getting hot. I’ll have GoPro footage of it eventually.

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8 hours ago, LukeBrinkerhoff said:

 Tried looking for this issue. Had race, after 2nd lap bike started loosing power, felt like I was trying to ride around in 4th instead of 2nd. You can feel the heat off the engine, but it never did boil coolant. I was moving fast enough for that matter. I would pull in the clutch on downhills to see if a brake was locking up. Not that either. Kinda cracks and pops, misses sometimes. Would idle just fine, and start right back up if I were to shut it off. Pulled into my pits for 20 minutes and took off to see if it would run better after it cooled, which it did, like nothing was ever wrong, finished that lap and went back to same issue once it got hot again.

 

 Looking for ideas, I don’t feel like the injector is the issue, kinda feel like something with the TPS. Or the pump in the tank getting hot. I’ll have GoPro footage of it eventually.

You have a fan? Bigger radiators? This sounds like overheating.. but idk..you are moving too sooo? Always check that the gas cap vent is venting good. Im not sure so far what the issue is but cooling mods always help. The dying fuel pump like kran says is another thing. How long are fuel pumps supposed to last and how often change fuel filters etc??

Edited by hawaiidirtrider
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

You have a fan? Bigger radiators? This sounds like overheating.. but idk..you are moving too sooo? Always check that the gas cap vent is venting good. Im not sure so far what the issue is but cooling mods always help. The dying fuel pump like kran says is another thing. How long are fuel pumps supposed to last and how often change fuel filters etc??

Hmm, stock radiators, stock cap so its not letting it get real hot before boiling, no fan(was planning on getting one) did have bigger hoses but had to replace half of them.

 I feel like it ‘should’ be boiling before being overheated and then loosing power, it’s kinda sad honestly to be loosing power. My Suzuki 450 wouldn’t loose power when it would start to boil from slow moving, but if I kept moving it would stay cool. It was a hot day, in the mid 90s. Vent tube is free, and you can see that the tank is getting hot, clear vent tube its collecting gas vapors and you can see it moving back and forth from the heat, so that’s why I also thought maybe something with the fuel pump. I know a computer for instance, when they start getting hot it will slow down a lot. So I understand a fan will help, I just cant afford to travel almost 2 hours for a race and I still have an issue other than getting hot.

Edited by LukeBrinkerhoff
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Looks like I am just not giving it any gas, or trying to ride around in 4th gear. I also know that when I had unibiker radiator guards(any guards for that matter) I feel like there is less air flow through the radiators compared to the stock louvers. Just washed it, and started it up, and it rode again like no issue. Maybe need to find a way to insulate the tank from the engine, and get a fan.

 

 

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Sounds like it starves... I'd check fuel pressure and fuel supply first. If all is well when the engine is cooler it only can be fuel or ignition.

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2 hours ago, LukeBrinkerhoff said:

Looks like I am just not giving it any gas, or trying to ride around in 4th gear. I also know that when I had unibiker radiator guards(any guards for that matter) I feel like there is less air flow through the radiators compared to the stock louvers. Just washed it, and started it up, and it rode again like no issue. Maybe need to find a way to insulate the tank from the engine, and get a fan.

 

 

Get a fan no matter what.. regardless if this is the direct issue or not. That’s the first thing that goes on for me. I didn’t realize you didn’t already have one installed. I forget which Betas come with and some don’t. I put on my 525 350 had it already and I put on my 300rr. Actually my 350 has a high flow impellar installed too . Actually I plan on adding more cooling mods as time goes on. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Sounds like it starves... I'd check fuel pressure and fuel supply first. If all is well when the engine is cooler it only can be fuel or ignition.

Id bet fuel more than ignition.

3 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Get a fan no matter what.. regardless if this is the direct issue or not. That’s the first thing that goes on for me. I didn’t realize you didn’t already have one installed. I forget which Betas come with and some don’t. I put on my 525 350 had it already and I put on my 300rr. Actually my 350 has a high flow impellar installed too . Actually I plan on adding more cooling mods as time goes on. 

its still a new bike, was planning on a fan, just getting around to it. never needed a fan before to make it through races, so I was gonna keep going till I got annoyed enough, which I just did. I think its stupid honestly still, all the other bikes out there make it just fine, if its actually an issue they should come from the factory with one, I dont think I ever seen one come from the factory with a fan already on it(other than a dual sport, but even some of those dont) Fans are for slow singletrack/hard enduro, or muddy races.

Edited by LukeBrinkerhoff
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49 minutes ago, LukeBrinkerhoff said:

Id bet fuel more than ignition.

its still a new bike, was planning on a fan, just getting around to it. never needed a fan before to make it through races, so I was gonna keep going till I got annoyed enough, which I just did. I think its stupid honestly still, all the other bikes out there make it just fine, if its actually an issue they should come from the factory with one, I dont think I ever seen one come from the factory with a fan already on it(other than a dual sport, but even some of those dont) Fans are for slow singletrack/hard enduro, or muddy races.

Yea something else is wrong too Id think. For a fast flowing ride like you showed in the vid cooling shouldnt be a main issue. Still my fan has gone on multiple times here in flowing open riding too. It’s a 4 stroke. Some Betas come with fans now. I think rrs and Xtrainer’s?? Not sure for newer Betas now. .. would have to look.  Yea newest rrs come with fans. I don’t know how far many years back that goes. My 12 350 race ed was an ex pro enduro cross bike. It had a fan and a high flo impellar. Thats a fast moving pace. I can’t see what your bikes issue is yet though. I just think it at least might help some. 
 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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3 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Yea something else is wrong too Id think. For a fast flowing ride like you showed in the vid cooling shouldnt be a main issue. Still my fan has gone on multiple times here in flowing open riding too. It’s a 4 stroke. Some Betas come with fans now. I think rrs and Xtrainer’s?? Not sure for newer Betas now. .. would have to look. 
 

Yeah I something is getting weak I'd say, and cooling it better is always a good idea, but is just gonna hid the issue i believe, may never have another problem.

 I didnt look close on the 2020 RRS when I rode the demo day, cant say I remember seeing them. 4 strokes 🤦‍♂️

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52 minutes ago, LukeBrinkerhoff said:

Yeah I something is getting weak I'd say, and cooling it better is always a good idea, but is just gonna hid the issue i believe, may never have another problem.

 I didnt look close on the 2020 RRS when I rode the demo day, cant say I remember seeing them. 4 strokes 🤦‍♂️

Yea maybe. If it’s a fuel pump and the bike is low miles that sucks. That’s if. But put on the list of possibilities. There’s fuel filter to check too right? And whatever else that hasn’t been mentioned yet. So fuel, air, ignition??

It cools down and works good when cooler you say.,

 

it could be a combination of things too. 
 

 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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4 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Yea maybe. If it’s a fuel pump and the bike is low miles that sucks. That’s if. But put on the list of possibilities. There’s fuel filter to check too right? And whatever else that hasn’t been mentioned yet. So fuel, air, ignition??

It cools down and works good when cooler you say.,

 

it could be a combination of things too. 
 

 

 There is a fuel filter in the tank, looks just like one you would put on a lawn mower, looks fine from what I can see looking through the cap. bike is a 2017 with close to 100 supposed hours so yeah its a little early for a pump, but if its been getting hot, premature wear could happen. 

 yeah, it does run better when it finally cools off, but I dont think you can keep a 4 stroke cool enough, you can just keep them below boiling point honestly. and since I never seen it boiling(no coolant in the catch can) just kinda hard to believe how hot it really got, but I know between the legs it felt hotter than a 2 stroke. ill be back on the 250 till I can trust the 350 again.

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40 minutes ago, LukeBrinkerhoff said:

 There is a fuel filter in the tank, looks just like one you would put on a lawn mower, looks fine from what I can see looking through the cap. bike is a 2017 with close to 100 supposed hours so yeah its a little early for a pump, but if its been getting hot, premature wear could happen. 

 yeah, it does run better when it finally cools off, but I dont think you can keep a 4 stroke cool enough, you can just keep them below boiling point honestly. and since I never seen it boiling(no coolant in the catch can) just kinda hard to believe how hot it really got, but I know between the legs it felt hotter than a 2 stroke. ill be back on the 250 till I can trust the 350 again.

Id still get a fan to start. What if you got it and that’s enough for it to be running well. Seems unlikely but my 350 doesn’t do that. It’s an ongoing search I think. I don’t have efi too so there’s something related there too. Efi guys can chime in anytime now..

 

shit change that lawn mower filter too.. just to cross that off the list. Should be cheap.
 

 Still a bike running hot runs like shit. 

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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31 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Id still get a fan to start. What if you got it and that’s enough for it to be running well. Seems unlikely but my 350 doesn’t do that. It’s an ongoing search I think. I don’t have efi too so there’s something related there too. Efi guys can chime in anytime now..

 

shit change that lawn mower filter too.. just to cross that off the list. Should be cheap.
 

 Still a bike running hot runs like shit. 

Lol, no that’s oem filter, that’s what they look like. So it has permanent band clamps, new filter from Betausa comes with new clamps. I’m guess I have to remove the whole fuel pump, so I guess I need to find out how much one of those are, may do it at the same time. 

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3 hours ago, LukeBrinkerhoff said:

Lol, no that’s oem filter, that’s what they look like. So it has permanent band clamps, new filter from Betausa comes with new clamps. I’m guess I have to remove the whole fuel pump, so I guess I need to find out how much one of those are, may do it at the same time. 

Yea I know.. but yea it looks like that. Perfect description . I just saw it on another thread. 
 

See here..

 

 

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6 hours ago, LukeBrinkerhoff said:

Lol, no that’s oem filter, that’s what they look like. So it has permanent band clamps, new filter from Betausa comes with new clamps. I’m guess I have to remove the whole fuel pump, so I guess I need to find out how much one of those are, may do it at the same time. 

Ask a riding buddy with the same bike if he lends you the whole tank for a short blast. If the problem remains unchanged it's not the fuel pump.

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My buddy's 350RR would boil the fuel in the tank, run like shit and pop stall coming into turns constantly.  This was in summer and the bike had a big tank fitted which was close to the back of the rads.  It did not boil over coolant either. 

Try Reflect-a -cool heat barrier insulation on the bottom of the tank.  And yes get a fan. 

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17 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Ask a riding buddy with the same bike if he lends you the whole tank for a short blast. If the problem remains unchanged it's not the fuel pump.

 There’s not a lot of these around me. I think we are on track with the engine heating up the tank.

 

7 hours ago, GP said:

My buddy's 350RR would boil the fuel in the tank, run like shit and pop stall coming into turns constantly.  This was in summer and the bike had a big tank fitted which was close to the back of the rads.  It did not boil over coolant either. 

Try Reflect-a -cool heat barrier insulation on the bottom of the tank.  And yes get a fan. 

 That’s what I’ve been looking for, someone with the same issue. Thank you! I’ll try it, won’t know when i will. Won’t have parts in time to put it on, and I’ll  be on vacation next week. 

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