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Aftermarket BIG Valve Cylinder Head

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31 minutes ago, Momus said:

Japanese aftermarket people Takegawa has desmodromic cylinder head conversions for the XR100 horizontal engine cousins.

The head is readily adaptable to an XR100 if your interested.

Lest you get mislead by bloviating,  cam/bucket followers are still common in performance engines but proper modern high performance and almost all racing four strokes use the far superior finger follower design and have since late last century. 

The finger follower and cam/bucket 250 MX GP bikes run to well over 16000 rpm- I've been told by one engineer to as much as 17000+ with fair reliability. The Dixon UK racing 250 Kawasakis, developed by Cosworth were running to 16K in 2015 and using 3 speed boxes with a power range from 6000 rpm up.

Tak Mjonkey Desmo.jpg

Finger follower..jpg

So this is what you run on your 100’s ? 

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On 1/12/2021 at 9:41 PM, mixxer said:

BTW.... Super thin valve stems and crazy high rev limits are not my favorite combination... Bigger heavier heads and skinny stems with high rpm is not always a good idea...

But in any event...

Unless you are an expert at porting, which you clearly are not or you would have posted a thousand pics by now... You are buying lots of stuff, yet maximizing nothing ..

That's a fact...

The Spartan heads ports are junk stock

Properly designed valves with slender low friction coated titanium stems are the reason we have high rpm reliability. 😉

Del West or Xceldyne makes mine for me 😎

I do my own ports and race in competitive series.

I know you would like to learn.

I posted a mold of a shear dam port that goes mid to high 20's horse as a 171 cc😉

.Get another Shift Up head and leave good alone. Set up correctly they will support around 20 hp.

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1 hour ago, adnohguy said:

So this is what you run on your 100’s ? 

No.

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22 hours ago, mixxer said:

Momus... You are a narcissistic blowhard and you are now boring me to death....

O. M. G.  Kettle on line 1 for you.

Momus, I really hope you hang around on this forum, clearly Mixxy loves having discussions.  She and ADNOHguy pretty much rule with about 90% support from members.  There are a few dissenters who dare try to ask questions or discuss different concepts. 

ADNOHguy is the real deal when it comes to the CRF230F as he has many years of build experience and experimentation with bigger everything. 

Mixxer is a fountain of knowledge but with access like Pandora.  You can't just ask a specific question or look up what you want to know, you have to wait and see if he happens to discuss the bike we have on this forum, CRF230F, or you can go out and buy whatever machine he is currently optimizing to the utmost.  This gets expensive and I'm running out of room for more motorcycles. 

Last time I got all excited about something the Matriarchs weren't in the mood to see discussed here it occurred to me that no one else was interested either so I took their advise and went elsewhere to get learnd.  I figured it would be best to quietly visit and gather all of the golden knowledge shared than to demand to be part of the discussion.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Momus said:

No.

Why not, I suppose that it is a little bit pricy maybe?
What kind of ignition allows shift points to be at 16,000 rpm on a xr 100? 

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6 hours ago, MetricMuscle said:

O. M. G.  Kettle on line 1 for you.

Momus, I really hope you hang around on this forum, clearly Mixxy loves having discussions.  She and ADNOHguy pretty much rule with about 90% support from members.  There are a few dissenters who dare try to ask questions or discuss different concepts. 

ADNOHguy is the real deal when it comes to the CRF230F as he has many years of build experience and experimentation with bigger everything. 

Mixxer is a fountain of knowledge but with access like Pandora.  You can't just ask a specific question or look up what you want to know, you have to wait and see if he happens to discuss the bike we have on this forum, CRF230F, or you can go out and buy whatever machine he is currently optimizing to the utmost.  This gets expensive and I'm running out of room for more motorcycles. 

Last time I got all excited about something the Matriarchs weren't in the mood to see discussed here it occurred to me that no one else was interested either so I took their advise and went elsewhere to get learnd.  I figured it would be best to quietly visit and gather all of the golden knowledge shared than to demand to be part of the discussion.

 

 

Ahhh... Metric Mouth Hole....

Never done anything more than assemble stuff that other people designed  ported manufactured ....

A few hack projects that never came to full fruition... And a whole lot of talk about big projects that are never going to happen....

But... Always ready to pop out of lurking to hide behind the skirt of anyone who thinks they got something for me... Up to and including oldie230... Don't matter what anyone knows (you can't tell the difference anyways)... But always ready to hide behind your new cyber mommy and hope she scolds me real good...

You go girl....

Keep the dream alive 🤣 

still wonder why you and oldie and momus (mommy) don't ever host your own threads with your wealth of information 🤔🤔... Always ready to piggyback and derail and chest best for attention in other popular threads...somehow always the bridesmaids but never the bride's...

Man up... If you think you know enough to hold anyone's attention... Make your own thread and host away.. 

Edited by mixxer
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6 hours ago, Momus said:

Properly designed valves with slender low friction coated titanium stems are the reason we have high rpm reliability. 😉

Del West or Xceldyne makes mine for me 😎

I do my own ports and race in competitive series.

I know you would like to learn.

I posted a mold of a shear dam port that goes mid to high 20's horse as a 171 cc😉

.Get another Shift Up head and leave good alone. Set up correctly they will support around 20 hp.

Once again.... Spouting off numbers and acting like since you said it ,it's real... Blah blah blah... Mid to high 20's ... Get your crayons out again and draw another dyno graph...and make sure to put the power roll off point at 16,000 reliable RPM...

"Leave it alone" but "set it up correctly" and " I port all my own stuff"

Welcome to the club of people who have valves made and use titanium👏👏👏

I have clay molded snd profiled valves and angles of backcuts on flow benches for many years, and then had production runs made for commercial sale of the final high cfm producing shape... There is world's more to it in profile than simply what they are made of... Gluing a quarter on a tootsie pop stick doesn't make power no matter how light it is... The valve head is the biggest obstruction to port flow ...like a bolder in a river..

And of course there are several areas of port flow ... Curtain and Port MCSA dominant... Big topic ... I'm sure you would like to know...

But... You are boring as hell and think you know a lot more than you do..

Seriously ... Grow a pair and host your own thread and quit hanging all over me to get the attention you are so desperate for...

If you know so much and are so interesting a writer, you should have no problem taking the big step.and going out on your own... 

My bet is you can't do it... You can't really copy and paste enough advertising ... Or maybe you ran out of crayons and can't draw all your 16k shift point "dyno graphs"... And you for sure don't know enough about port flow work to be able to blow enough smoke after you put you stamp of approval on the garbage "as delivered" ports on the Spartan head... Now that you opened your big mouth on that one you are flipping sides between " stock is awesome" and "my porting pushes 30hp".... You look at my port vs stock Spartan port and claim Spartan rules but MY porting ruined it?!? You just went for a stroll on the playground and forgot to put your pants on there...!! No amount of back pedaling can erase that idiot statement...

Be a big boy.... Host you own thread... I will loan you 5 bucks for a new dyno.... I mean box of crayons😎

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, MetricMuscle said:

O. M. G.  Kettle on line 1 for you.

Momus, I really hope you hang around on this forum, clearly Mixxy loves having discussions.  She and ADNOHguy pretty much rule with about 90% support from members.  There are a few dissenters who dare try to ask questions or discuss different concepts. 

ADNOHguy is the real deal when it comes to the CRF230F as he has many years of build experience and experimentation with bigger everything. 

Mixxer is a fountain of knowledge but with access like Pandora.  You can't just ask a specific question or look up what you want to know, you have to wait and see if he happens to discuss the bike we have on this forum, CRF230F, or you can go out and buy whatever machine he is currently optimizing to the utmost.  This gets expensive and I'm running out of room for more motorcycles. 

Last time I got all excited about something the Matriarchs weren't in the mood to see discussed here it occurred to me that no one else was interested either so I took their advise and went elsewhere to get learnd.  I figured it would be best to quietly visit and gather all of the golden knowledge shared than to demand to be part of the discussion.

 

 

Thanks for the heads up. I can tell I'm over the target by mixxer's flack and addnho's searchlight. I've done a few things with SL, XL, XR, CRF engines as well so plenty of interest in those too. What are you working on?

Edited by Momus
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7 hours ago, adnohguy said:

Why not, I suppose that it is a little bit pricy maybe?
What kind of ignition allows shift points to be at 16,000 rpm on a xr 100? 

I can't see the point of the desmo complication and reliability issues. My bucket 4 valvers have the same porting and very similar cam timing and no problems with valve control up to any rpm I'd use for MX. Ditto the 2 valvers. There is money as well. If I had the time I'd sink the dough into a finger follower 4 valve head with proper porting.

I use points ignition.,😉

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53 minutes ago, Momus said:

I can't see the point of the desmo complication and reliability issues. My bucket 4 valvers have the same porting and very similar cam timing and no problems with valve control up to any rpm I'd use for MX. Ditto the 2 valvers. There is money as well. If I had the time I'd sink the dough into a finger follower 4 valve head with proper porting.

I use points ignition.,😉

You should start a new thread, I have many questions.  A points ignition system is very old and a terrible choice for high rpm applications yes? 
Are you trolling yes or yes? 
 

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34 minutes ago, Bigfatredpig said:

You should start a new thread, I have many questions.  A points ignition system is very old and a terrible choice for high rpm applications yes? 
Are you trolling yes or yes? 
 

Why start a new thread? Mixxer's invited me by proclaiming very loudly that he was taking on ALL challengers for title of fastest XR100 engine. I'm up for the challenge.

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3 hours ago, mixxer said:

Once again.... Spouting off numbers and acting like since you said it ,it's real... Blah blah blah... Mid to high 20's ... Get your crayons out again and draw another dyno graph...and make sure to put the power roll off point at 16,000 reliable RPM...

"Leave it alone" but "set it up correctly" and " I port all my own stuff"

Welcome to the club of people who have valves made and use titanium👏👏👏

I have clay molded snd profiled valves and angles of backcuts on flow benches for many years, and then had production runs made for commercial sale of the final high cfm producing shape... There is world's more to it in profile than simply what they are made of... Gluing a quarter on a tootsie pop stick doesn't make power no matter how light it is... The valve head is the biggest obstruction to port flow ...like a bolder in a river..

And of course there are several areas of port flow ... Curtain and Port MCSA dominant... Big topic ... I'm sure you would like to know...

But... You are boring as hell and think you know a lot more than you do..

Seriously ... Grow a pair and host your own thread and quit hanging all over me to get the attention you are so desperate for...

If you know so much and are so interesting a writer, you should have no problem taking the big step.and going out on your own... 

My bet is you can't do it... You can't really copy and paste enough advertising ... Or maybe you ran out of crayons and can't draw all your 16k shift point "dyno graphs"... And you for sure don't know enough about port flow work to be able to blow enough smoke after you put you stamp of approval on the garbage "as delivered" ports on the Spartan head... Now that you opened your big mouth on that one you are flipping sides between " stock is awesome" and "my porting pushes 30hp".... You look at my port vs stock Spartan port and claim Spartan rules but MY porting ruined it?!? You just went for a stroll on the playground and forgot to put your pants on there...!! No amount of back pedaling can erase that idiot statement...

Be a big boy.... Host you own thread... I will loan you 5 bucks for a new dyno.... I mean box of crayons😎

 

 

 

Show me a photo of a valve head you have developed and the completed valve you had made please.

While you are at it a shot of your flow test apparatus.

 

001.JPG

002.JPG

Edited by Momus

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38 minutes ago, Momus said:

Show me a photo of a valve head you have developed and the completed valve you had made please.

While you are at it a shot of your flow test apparatus.

 

001.JPG

002.JPG

You mean for the xr 100? 
Might already have some photos in that Forum?

and the Suzuki 400 forum. 

and the Honda 450 forum.

and Yamaha 450 forum

This is the 230f forum, but a few photos are here and there on this forum. 
Do a search and enjoy. 

Edited by adnohguy
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5 hours ago, Momus said:

 

Matriarchs is the correct description of those two.

Or midwives in charge of too many still births for my taste though. 😁

Edited by Momus
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1 minute ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

Damn snooty kids. Time to whoop out the mighty XR80 and show those little XR100 boys what’s up. They might not come out of their rooms for a week after picking  knobs from their teeth. 😂😂😂

DD108EC5-C83A-4642-BF22-FB98A318706C.jpeg

F9E07B0C-C0FB-46CB-A617-3B56D1731970.jpeg

Awesome Steve😁

I can barely see the nitrous bottle under the tank with that big motor shoehorned in there...😳👁️

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1 minute ago, mixxer said:

Awesome Steve😁

I can barely see the nitrous bottle under the tank with that big motor shoehorned in there...😳👁️

That is what they call a weaponized mini. Use to make the kids not sleep for weeks when they got had on the mini track at Indian Dunes. I hope they grew up ok.😝 Course that track has been closed 20+ years by now. 😳

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4 hours ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

Damn snooty kids. Time to whoop out the mighty XR80 and show those little XR100 boys what’s up. They might not come out of their rooms for a week after picking  knobs from their teeth. 😂😂😂

DD108EC5-C83A-4642-BF22-FB98A318706C.jpeg

F9E07B0C-C0FB-46CB-A617-3B56D1731970.jpeg

Good job.   Are you running the oil cooler full flow or bypass?

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22 hours ago, Momus said:

Thanks for the heads up. I can tell I'm over the target by mixxer's flack and addnho's searchlight. I've done a few things with SL, XL, XR, CRF engines as well so plenty of interest in those too. What are you working on?

Nothing at the moment.

Have you ever welded a combustion chamber to "close" it a bit or do any of the aftermarket manufacturers do this?

This is the last project I worked on.

I think you need a new challenge, a new engine to tinker with.  You need to get yourself a CRF230F and start working your magic.

Edited by MetricMuscle

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