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   99 piles of parts on the bike, 99 piles of parts, take one down, machine it around, 98 piles of parts on the bike.   98 piles of parts on the bike, 98 piles of parts...…………….:banana:

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1 minute ago, Doogee57 said:

   99 piles of parts on the bike, 99 piles of parts, take one down, machine it around, 98 piles of parts on the bike.   98 piles of parts on the bike, 98 piles of parts...…………….:banana:

That's freaking funny my man!!😆

Unless you are the one under the pile ☹️😥

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35 minutes ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

Do what’s reasonably necessary to get a reliable fun bike. Remember it’s only money. 🤑

Solid advice Steve.... In all my years I never expected to be taken down by a Honda 100 project....

If you have a few minutes, maybe you could start a go fund me account for me...

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Where was that picture of the XR100 (?) with the XR200 motor in it? Hopped it up so much it turned into a 200. OH YEAH!

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4 minutes ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

That’s not a 100 it’s a XR80. 😝

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Steve... You must make a shitload more money at the strip club than I do...$$$$$

I gotta work on my dance moves if I'm going to have toys like yours ¢¢¢

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9 minutes ago, SteveThe Snakes said:

That’s not a 100 it’s a XR80.

  Yeah, that's the one. Thought it was you Steveo.

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Just now, mixxer said:

Steve... You must make a shitload more money at the strip club than I do...$$$$$

I gotta work on my dance moves if I'm going to have toys like yours ¢¢¢

Hahaha that one there is real old and dates back to the mini track at Indian Dunes where they would only let minis in. Another frankenbike. 🤙

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2 hours ago, mixxer said:

Well maybe then....

You know I have gone a lot deeper into this thing than I had intended..lol

I just wanted to get a torquey little 120cc setup made for the fun of it... But an afternoon of daughters newbie boyfriend WOT in 1st gear messed up all my plans....

I actually don't want to run a lightened flywheel or bump the rev limiter above stock....

I'm sort of turning this fun little project into a rabbit hole of unplanned expense.... Not my first time doing something like this, but I'm actually tired of myself at this point...lol...funny/ not funny...

So check this out....

I posted up that when I went to pull the stock flywheel for stroker crank recommended lightening... That the keyway was boogered up...

So off to eBay to get a decent used one ... I thought....

I buy one and have it shipped directly to JC Racing for lightening service... Why ship to me and then right back out to him...

Yesterday I get it back and after he was doing the lightening, JC contacted me to let me know that whoever had the fly before me had ground material off the trigger... And that he dressed it up all to the where it had a flat surface again... And wanted to let me know it SHOULD work if I can move the non adjustable pick up closer to the the flywheel...

OMG!!!  I wouldn't think to look or ask "before I buy the used fly, did anyone happen to take a grinder to the trigger??" .. nobody would think that would happen anyways...

So .. now I have a previously effed up OEM flywheel... AND a lightened flywheel with only .015" of raised trigger...☹️😡

I don't even know if that height difference is enough to trigger a spark signal even IF I cut mounts to move the pick up closer... In which case I would have effed up my OEM pick up assy all for nothing....

Pick of stock fly with bad keyway and modded fly with bad trigger...

I don't yet know WTF to do about this... I am pretty bummed out about it though.... Looking for input... Tired of thinking about it...

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Spot weld on a new trigger plate. From what I have read there is a hole under the plate that makes up for the weight gain of the trigger plate for balance.

 

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1 minute ago, hornet10 said:

Spot weld on a new trigger plate. From what I have read there is a hole under the plate that makes up for the weight gain of the trigger plate for balance.

 

An excellent suggestion if I knew a competent welder...

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On 8/17/2020 at 8:54 PM, mixxer said:

Beyond enlightening on all counts...

I know the pit bike world has been 110 crazy for a long time... 

I bought one and modded it up a bit back in 03 because chasing my kids around on their 50's/70's was pretty boring on a full sized bike... Every adult had a blast on it... Wish I had never sold it...

I hear you on the asshat ratio... Bane of my existence... You try and teach and illuminate in a way you are certain that a kindergartner would get it if you just added in a crayon drawing.... And nope... Not even a dent...

My quote inspired by on line interactions close to 20 years ago now

"The illogical posess super human powers in the art of argument... Since their very nature leaves them immune to the sting of logic, they can carry on the fight long after the reasoning man would have succumbed"

Or... As Mark Twain said:

"No amount of evidence will ever persuade a true idiot"

You know what is funny for me with you entering this thread is now instead of me thinking I'm breaking ground and spec'ing out everything on my XR100 because of the lack of info... 

Then in walks a true Alpha Builder on the topic.... A Engineer Machinist no less...

Here I am all proud to post up how I got my custom thickness Cometic gaskets so I can get to low 30's squish... 

And you are posting up hybrid XR/KLX engines you have built and tuned to crazy output levels....

It's like I picked mom a few tulips and you bought Holland ....

lol... A much bigger dog is in the pen now...

I have built engines and researched it all as my favorite lifelong hobby... But the non machinist deal is a real weakness... I do however understand everything you discuss ...and enjoy the coming up to speed on the pit bike engine details quite a bit...!

I'm still going to post the gasket pics... Maybe mom will hang them up on the refrigerator....that you built from billet...lol...oh well

Lol I dig the quotes. Funny but painfully true.

 

I hope I didn't offend you by chiming in on your build thread? If I did i apologize was only trying to add data. I feel your build thread is very useful. While I dont do a lot of xr builds now a days, i do frequently get guys contacting me asking how to get a little more ass out of their xr. And as you have come to find out there isnt a whole lot of public data on the 100 stuff. So having threads like this are very useful for guys new to mini engines. Hell its useful for myself too. Im not the best on book keeping 😳. I have done a few of these heads and have done all the inspection work you have done. But I when I was initially reading through the post and got to the part of chamber volume and port volume i like to test my memory. So im thinking chamber volume is 13cc port volumes..... yea.... dont even remotely remember. I was close on chamber volume but didn't even have i decent guess on port volumes. Long story short its helpful to a wide variety of guys and hope to see you continue on with it.

 

.034" not great but as bad it could be. If you dont plan to bush it I'd recommend using some red loctite on the OD of crank bearings. Will help keep the crank in place. Only drawback whatever poor bastard that takes it apart my cuss you out 😂

 

Snapped a couple pics of the dohc porrd for ya tonight also. 

 

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3 hours ago, storminnorman07 said:

Lol I dig the quotes. Funny but painfully true.

 

I hope I didn't offend you by chiming in on your build thread? If I did i apologize was only trying to add data. I feel your build thread is very useful. While I dont do a lot of xr builds now a days, i do frequently get guys contacting me asking how to get a little more ass out of their xr. And as you have come to find out there isnt a whole lot of public data on the 100 stuff. So having threads like this are very useful for guys new to mini engines. Hell its useful for myself too. Im not the best on book keeping 😳. I have done a few of these heads and have done all the inspection work you have done. But I when I was initially reading through the post and got to the part of chamber volume and port volume i like to test my memory. So im thinking chamber volume is 13cc port volumes..... yea.... dont even remotely remember. I was close on chamber volume but didn't even have i decent guess on port volumes. Long story short its helpful to a wide variety of guys and hope to see you continue on with it.

 

.034" not great but as bad it could be. If you dont plan to bush it I'd recommend using some red loctite on the OD of crank bearings. Will help keep the crank in place. Only drawback whatever poor bastard that takes it apart my cuss you out 😂

 

Snapped a couple pics of the dohc porrd for ya tonight also. 

 

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No offense at all .. very much welcome your input!

Now that you mention Red Loctite I remember the Suzuki 500 2 stroke quads having crank bearing seats that required Loctite to not go rogue...  With my karma, if I use it I will somehow need to re-split the cases sooner than anything I have ever had ... 

Very much like the intake port of the DOHC... Too bad it has to enter from the side instead of straight... It would mimic the 450class thumpers if it could be straight..

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On 8/18/2020 at 7:20 AM, Doogee57 said:

 Yo Mix, if storminnorman will give us enough details I'll make the shims for you to tighten up the crank's side play. Real mechanical drawing/blue prints would be great.  :cheers:

Sorry bud missed this message. Unfortunately there is not a one size fits all shim. At least in my experiences building them the side to side slop varies. And its not always a perfect 50/50 split. Some cases it has been more suitable to run a bias thickness. You probably understand what I'm explaining but some may not. So im going to break it down in more detail for those that may be following along that want to dabble in correcting this issue in their engine. 

 

Attached is a picture of a crank for reference. Unfortunately I don't have any actual 100 cranks on hand so in place of it I'm using a klx110 crank. The way I personally proceed with this is the following.  Ill get the clutch side case secured on a flat surface and off that surface enough that when i insert the crank the end doesn't hit and impede. Ill the use a good used center case gasket. This set is very VERY important. A new gasket may potentially give you a false reading. I then install crank cam chain and flywheel side case. I then bolt and torque cases to spec. Upon doing so ill pull out an indicator and first pull my total end play movement and record the number making note its 0.xxx" movement from clutch case half. After recording I then install cylinder head, cam and cam gear then snug down. You don't have to install piston rings or top end gaskets. It also will make your life a hell of a lot easier if you either remove the rockers or install check springs in place of the valve springs. Reasonings why is the next step is to check cam chain tracking. You want to be able freely rotate the crankand watch how the cam chain tracks on the crank mounted cam chain gear and cam gear. As i just mentioned you now will be checking how the cam chain tracks along the gears very similar to adjusting you chain. The method I have been explaining we know the engine is resting on the clutch side case half so the crank is resting on thag half and being as such more times than not the crank mounted cam chain gear is not going to be inline with the cam gear. So as you rotate the crank and watch how the chain tracks on that gear the chain is going to wanna ride up off the gear. But I have had some this is how the cam chain tracked the best and had to put 0.xxx" shim all on the flywheel side bearing. If it dont track well ill then place the indicator back on the crank zero out and pull the crank toward flywheel  side until chain is tracking well. When it does ill take a reading and record. Lol thats a lot to take in without a video or step by step pics so let's try and put some numbers to it. Say for the first reading when crank is all the way to the clutch side half you zero then pull to the flywheel side giving you a total slop of... for nice easy numbers we will say 0.105". As mentioned in a previous message I like to allot for 0.005 clearance for thermal expansion. So right off the bat whatever my total movement is I knock off 5 thou giving us 0.100". Now when I initially check cam chain tracking if its good with the crank pushed all the way to the clutch half I know I only need 1 bushing 0.100" thick behind the flywheel side crank bearing. If not ill continue to move crank towards flywheel half until it tracks well. Let's say that it does this at 0.050". I then know i need 2 bushings 50 thou thick 1 behind each crank bearing. As you can see you can very well have a bias bushing thickness or could get lucky and a 50/50 split work. 

 

After you determine the above then you can machine yourself some bushings. And now I can reference the picture I attached. We will say we did the above and found that we need a equal sized bushing setup of 0.050" in each side. Inner diameter of the bushing you want to just a touch bigger then thr shaft diamtere where the crank bearing is pressed on. You dont want it so tight you have to press the bushing on but not so loose its sloppy. Just big enough to slide on. The outer diameter of bushing you want about 10 thou smaller than the outer diameter of the inner race. And in this scenario 50 thou thick. Then you press off crank mounted cam gear and crank bearings. Referencing the attached picture the bushings should go between the crank bearing and crank half where the blue arrows are. Then press the crsnk bearings and crank cam gear back on. I personally double check my work to make sure I didnt make a bone head mistake. If all checks put assemble and go rip 🤙

20200819_213927.jpg

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Awesome information Mr Stormin...!

I'm just going to go with Yamabond and skip the case gasket all together...😎

Totally kidding....

Your chain tracking biased crank shimming seems perfect... But it is beyond my capability...

Edited by mixxer

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1 hour ago, mixxer said:

Awesome information Mr Stormin...!

  Awesome info indeed. I understand completely and that's quite a procedure. Between the bearing and the crank wheel. That's a lot of hassle but I also figure that's the best way to do it since the bearings would be fully seated in their case pockets/bores. The easier way (bearing o.d. sized spacers in the bottom of the cases' bearing bores) would not give you full support for the bearing and would let the spacers float around in there. 

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4 hours ago, Doogee57 said:

  Awesome info indeed. I understand completely and that's quite a procedure. Between the bearing and the crank wheel. That's a lot of hassle but I also figure that's the best way to do it since the bearings would be fully seated in their case pockets/bores. The easier way (bearing o.d. sized spacers in the bottom of the cases' bearing bores) would not give you full support for the bearing and would let the spacers float around in there. 

Yes sir that is another potential way of doing some take bushings but have to mindful of what's going on. 

So the red photo shopped pic is if you would put your take up bushing behind the crank bearing. You can see how it then spaces out your crank mounted cam gear. Where as of you add your spacer on the outside of the bearing  yes you take up thay slop but you are inherently pulled thay gears center line towards the center of cases. Which may or may not be ok for cam chain tracking. This route is by far easier/faster than behind the bearing. In my experiences with older cases/crank I can't get it to line up as well as I'd like it to line up and end up having to do the bushing behind the bearing. But even that has tis limitations. You space the crank mounted cam gear to far off its designed step on crank shaft you lose surface area and effectively lose interference resistance to the forces if the cam and bad shit happens.... ask me how I know and I'll tell you a story how a ruined not 1 set but 2 sets of expensive ass titanium valves 🤦‍♂️😂🤣. But that was on a set of cases that had grotesque side to side play. My dumbass didn't check it before I did a shit ton of case work it. It was my personal engine so I gave it the #sendit stamp and yea... definitely bite me in the ass. It was a easy fix couple tabs of hot glue held it in place and that engine is still to this day being used as a gncc engine. 

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   And then there's always,,,,, Is the connecting rod centered in the bore/piston?  Makes me wonder how Honda ever got them to run reliably with all those wide open tolerances.

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Next up....

All new clutch plates.... 2 new heavy duty springs and 2 new Honda OEM springs...

I used a high volume oil pump from Kitaco to replace the stocker...

And since I'm using a high volume oil pump, I did a simple/ old school trick to send a bit more oil up to the cam and rocker box..

Pic shows a still bit pointing to the hole that feeds oil to the bottom of the cylinder...and then to passage leading up round the cylinder stud to the head...

I drilled it out one single drill size bigger...

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Powder coated....

Polished...

Stainless screws....

It's just a lil ole 97 XR100... But I have my standards... hahaha..

If you a old and slow, you at least need Style, Baby! 😎😁

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Edited by mixxer
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