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Article about SxS caused destruction and the outcome

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I do not it any way condone the behaviour of any ORV user that disregards the rules or gives ORV users a bad name. 

But what do you expect when you sell $20,000+ highly capable off road machines in huge numbers, then provide little to no area to use the thing... Most ORV areas (at least ones I have been to) are over crowded, with user competing for trail mileage and access. 

I have never been to a ORV park with a sanctioned play area or pit. it's always some pit that some authority halfa$$ blocked off with rocks that people find their way into. If there were some play areas with mud bogs and hill climbs and places where people can let loose they won't have the need to go do that somewhere they shouldn't be. 

Seems like the regulation and bureaucracy of ORV areas is so strict. If they just loosened up those restrictions and allowed the ORV areas to better server the users they could resolve a lot of the issues of people riding where they aren't supposed to. They have trail mileage limit for my local riding area and tons of restrictions and closures. But it's no big deal they cut down hundred of acres of forest and put a huge housing development in down the street. 

 

 

Also dirt bikers, especially sing track riders should not be looped into the general ORV crowed. Besides the noise dirt bike single track is less impactful then any hiking or cattle trail. 

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2 minutes ago, UpperLeft said:

Also dirt bikers, especially sing track riders should not be looped into the general ORV crowed. Besides the noise dirt bike single track is less impactful then any hiking or cattle trail. 

I'm glad you brought that up.  Horses, that are touted as eco friendly, tear up a trail far worse than a dirt bike, especially if the trail is wet.  We get lumped in with the bad part of OHV, and undeservedly so.  I see very little damage caused by dirt bikes in my area, but lots of damage by horses, especially on hills.

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8 minutes ago, UpperLeft said:

I do not it any way condone the behaviour of any ORV user that disregards the rules or gives ORV users a bad name. 

But what do you expect when you sell $20,000+ highly capable off road machines in huge numbers, then provide little to no area to use the thing... Most ORV areas (at least ones I have been to) are over crowded, with user competing for trail mileage and access. 

I have never been to a ORV park with a sanctioned play area or pit. it's always some pit that some authority halfa$$ blocked off with rocks that people find their way into. If there were some play areas with mud bogs and hill climbs and places where people can let loose they won't have the need to go do that somewhere they shouldn't be. 

Seems like the regulation and bureaucracy of ORV areas is so strict. If they just loosened up those restrictions and allowed the ORV areas to better server the users they could resolve a lot of the issues of people riding where they aren't supposed to. They have trail mileage limit for my local riding area and tons of restrictions and closures. But it's no big deal they cut down hundred of acres of forest and put a huge housing development in down the street. 

 

 

Also dirt bikers, especially sing track riders should not be looped into the general ORV crowed. Besides the noise dirt bike single track is less impactful then any hiking or cattle trail. 

If only it were true. I was out at Moon Rocks twice last month. Plenty of places to play, plenty of areas for SXS and bikes. Still a big group decides it’s cool to let their kids rip around the camping area, throw their Smirnoff Ice bottles everywhere, shoot, shoot fireworks and surprise, surprise pull out and leave a big mess (which I cleaned up cause I’m a leaf licker or whatever you wanna call me, I alike my nature natural) they were a mix of bikers and sxs and quads. Idiots ride all the things. Plenty of room, hardly any rules (no fireworks, keep your speed down in the campground) but that’s just too much impingement on some entitled Smirnoff Ice drinking mofos. So forewarned, if I see you drinking Smirnoff Ice out camping, I might shove the bottle up your a$$. Be thankful it wasn’t one of the three that were broken! 😂

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The amateur nationals is at Loretta Lynn’s dude ranch. They have miles and miles of trails for horses. The horses tear up the trails so bad that once in the spring and once in the fall the MTDRA(middle Tennessee dirt riders association) has a weekend long camp and trail ride for 2 wheels only. Riding  dirt bikes on the horse trails repairs the damage and smooths them out. Imagine that!

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24 minutes ago, BOAB said:

I'm glad you brought that up.  Horses, that are touted as eco friendly, tear up a trail far worse than a dirt bike, especially if the trail is wet.  We get lumped in with the bad part of OHV, and undeservedly so.  I see very little damage caused by dirt bikes in my area, but lots of damage by horses, especially on hills.

Yeah, same here.

Fun Fact: There is not one single animal with a hoof, that is indigenous to Australia. All our native animals have pads etc. No hoofs.
I helped repair a property damaged from cattle erosion. It was trashed.

Anyway. It's the 4x4 drivers here that destroy the bush. Quad bikes and SXS's can't get rego, so, are illegal anywhere off road, you can only drive them on private property.
You can race a quad in MX, but some tracks won't allow them.
The SxS's have to race in the Australian Rally championship, on gravel roads, or, they can do 4x4 winching comps. That's it.

About 5 of the blokes I ride with have SxS's, I've never seen a SxS in the bush/woods. Other than my Quad, I've only ever seen 2 other quads in the bush/woods. That's in over 20 yrs of riding here.

They're a non issue. I reckon they're grouse. I'd love one. If we had somewhere to drive, and race them, I'd be all in. 

Oh, you can race them in the Finke Desert race now, but, limited entries. Took my mates 3 yrs to get in a bike entry. Aussie version of Baja.

Edited by Drop-Bear
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isnt it insane that Australia doesn't have amazing offroad availability? Heck, who's out there to stop ya out in the middle of nowhere? All the folks live on the coast

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SxS's are a double edged sword. The private parks I ride at, at least with one of them, would not be able to stay open if it wasn't for the revenue generated by the SxS's but then again the owner is constantly having issues with them as well as ATV's 

It's mostly just a barrier to entry kind of problem. It's hard for someone riding a bike their first day to go fast enough to really do any damage to anyone but themselves, but a huge SxS can ruin an area just doing a few doughnuts. 

If SxS's didn't exist at all, sure some would ride dirt bikes instead, but how many? Maybe 25%? 

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Let's not turn this into a class conflict among OHV groups, or OHV vs ranchers. Remember that we all have a common enemy who would ultimately have us all caged in concrete commie blocks, fed state-issued vegetable portions, and send off dissenters into labor camps for their racism or something.

Your mind should always be set on the offensive. SxS ruining riding areas? Don't ban SxS. Demand more OHV areas for them. Same for quads. And God knows I dislike both. 
I don't like the battlefield terrain horses leave behind. I don't enjoy half a foot deep layer of moon dust they turn trails into in the summer. But I only demand that the state offers more trails for them where no trails currently exist. 

You can't win this war playing defense. 

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My local riding area has had several single track trails poached and destroyed by SxS drivers. Give them more areas to ride? In AZ we have over 50,000 miles of unregulated dirt roads that they can play on yet they think they can poach single track. I'm afraid it won't be long until the whole area is closed down due to them and the illegal shooters and their trash. Ugh.

Edited by SS109
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5 hours ago, SS109 said:

My local riding area has had several single track trails poached and destroyed by SxS drivers. Give them more areas to ride? In AZ we have over 50,000 miles of unregulated dirt roads that they can play on yet they think they can poach single track. I'm afraid it won't be long until the whole area is closed down due to them and the illegal shooters and their trash. Ugh.

Just like what happened behind my house on BLM.

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5 hours ago, SS109 said:

My local riding area has had several single track trails poached and destroyed by SxS drivers. Give them more areas to ride? In AZ we have over 50,000 miles of unregulated dirt roads that they can play on yet they think they can poach single track. I'm afraid it won't be long until the whole area is closed down due to them and the illegal shooters and their trash. Ugh.

This is true in my area of AZ as well. We cut single track to avoid being ran over by 180hp SxS with 20" of suspension travel. Yet, if we don't disguise our entry point or pick a spot blocked by large rocks, it gets poached, mapped out, sent to there buddies & then becomes unsafe. The old jeep guys that converted over to SxS are very respectful. Dirt bike guys that take family out in them, also very respectful. The other majority are clueless. Its an unstoppable movement. Be safe out there.

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I currently work at a dealership, and in 3 months I've seen 5 SXS come in rolled, 3 that hit something hard enough to bend frames, and countless that come in full of empty beer cans/bottles.  A bunch of them do have the rich/entitled attitude as well, constant complaints that warranty doesn't cover service, crash, or "user adjustment failure". 

 Polaris is in the middle of a big recall on the turbos for clutch failure, and I lost track of the people who called, complained, and then said "what's polaris gonna do if I drive it anyway?" Then get mad when told since you got the letter and called us we noted on your file that your clutch hasn't exploded and you received the warning, so if you do have a clutch failure they'll probably give you a clutch but will not fix any collateral damage.

I tend to go to bike/atv only places.  ATV because my wife can barely ride a bicycle, so she has a recon.  Small, slow, easy to ride, and a good learning platform.  On the bike only single track there is no trash to be seen, and a little on the atv trails.  But the trails are all 1 way, and while that can be annoying at times it is much safer.  The places around here that allow SXS are not good for bike/atv anymore.  I've talked to a ton of customers that tell me how unsafe and/or trashed they have gotten since they opened areas to SXS. 

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15 hours ago, pat22043 said:

Tearing up fragile wetlands or tundra will get the tree huggers all upset, and then they let shotgun blasts out any anyone they think caused it. We get hit as collateral damage. The solution is simple: Don't do that.

The problem is fundamentally that SxS are too easy to drive. Folks rent them with no appreciation of being outdoors, proper land management, etc. And the ability to carry 2 cases of cold beer doesn't help.

Down at Hatfield-McCoy in West Virginia, the SxS greatly outnumber the ATV and dirt bikes. While many SxS folks are fine, their vehicles are wide and take up at least 80% of the trail width. Trails that were trivial for passing dirt bikes and not a big deal for ATVs are now blocked. On the blind corners, this is  a serious problem. I've had buddies on bikes head-on into SxS that literally took up the whole trail.

Maybe we can make them harder to drive?

That’s brutally true. I’ve been in the Moses Lake Sand Dunes a lot the last two years working around here and it’s a damn mess.

 Dunes that use to be good in size keep getting the tops cut off because idiots that rent (or very cheaply buy) a SxS like go go sideways on the hillside. Usually they get stuck on it too. Then the dunes have holes in them.

 Not to mention our single tracks here are only 70-90” wide. Two bikes, no problem. But I’ve taken a header more than once just cruising along and some SxS gets all drunk and disorderly then smashes into me. First time was only 10-15mph each. I jumped up on the seat and broke my front wheel when it hit their winch plate.

 Let’s put DUI devices in all of them. And maybe make these idiots take responsibility for their actions. Ya know, a diver’s license for orv ain’t a bad idea. Look at Oregon. 

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2 hours ago, countrykiller76 said:

That’s brutally true. I’ve been in the Moses Lake Sand Dunes a lot the last two years working around here and it’s a damn mess.

 Dunes that use to be good in size keep getting the tops cut off because idiots that rent (or very cheaply buy) a SxS like go go sideways on the hillside. Usually they get stuck on it too. Then the dunes have holes in them.

 Not to mention our single tracks here are only 70-90” wide. Two bikes, no problem. But I’ve taken a header more than once just cruising along and some SxS gets all drunk and disorderly then smashes into me. First time was only 10-15mph each. I jumped up on the seat and broke my front wheel when it hit their winch plate.

 Let’s put DUI devices in all of them. And maybe make these idiots take responsibility for their actions. Ya know, a diver’s license for orv ain’t a bad idea. Look at Oregon. 

Luckily, we have enough trees in most of Oregon to keep the megakwadtards in check. I haven't had a single SxS encounter of any kind yet. You great basin guys are screwed. As to Oregons ridiculous regulatory morass, I wouldn't wish that on anyone. 

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Just what we need, another thread bashing any form of OHV recreation.

You guys are blaming inanimate objects for doing trail damage. Just likes gun bigots blame the gun and not the &%$#@!tard that pulled the trigger.

The &%$#@!tard behind the wheel is doing the damage, that same idiot would find a way to do the damage if the SxS wasn't involved. Either on a motorcycle, quad or in a Jeep or pickup or bronco or whatever.

I'm old enough to have heard these same arguments about quads, hell I can remember reading about &%$#@!tards in 4x4s tearing shit up. Where and more importantly, why do you think Thread Lightly was started and pushed in Four Wheeler magazine and other rags?!!! It needs pushed in the quad and SxS mags and forums.

It definitely wasn't the SxS market that invented &%$#@!tards. &%$#@!tards be &%$#@!tards regardless of what they are piloting!!!

And yep, for your information I own a SxS and a quad and a Jeep and a pickup and even a motorcycle. 

Don't be part of the problem, all your bitching about SxSs is gonna do is get trails shut down. Ask Boab about how the trails behind his place are closed now, because of bitching about the SxS.

Be part of the solution.

I believe education is the answer. Not sure how to go about that, but I believe it is key.

Now I'll get down off my soapbox, but in no way I'm I gonna apologize. It needed to be said, cause everybody needs educated once in a while. Even me.

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2 minutes ago, CoronaCarl said:

Just what we need, another thread bashing any form of OHV recreation.

You guys are blaming inanimate objects for doing trail damage. Just likes gun bigots blame the gun and not the &%$#@!tard that pulled the trigger.

The &%$#@!tard behind the wheel is doing the damage, that same idiot would find a way to do the damage if the SxS wasn't involved. Either on a motorcycle, quad or in a Jeep or pickup or bronco or whatever.

I'm old enough to have heard these same arguments about quads, hell I can remember reading about &%$#@!tards in 4x4s tearing shit up. Where and more importantly, why do you think Thread Lightly was started and pushed in Four Wheeler magazine and other rags?!!! It needs pushed in the quad and SxS mags and forums.

It definitely wasn't the SxS market that invented &%$#@!tards. &%$#@!tards be &%$#@!tards regardless of what they are piloting!!!

And yep, for your information I own a SxS and a quad and a Jeep and a pickup and even a motorcycle. 

Don't be part of the problem, all your bitching about SxSs is gonna do is get trails shut down. Ask Boab about how the trails behind his place are closed now, because of bitching about the SxS.

Be part of the solution.

I believe education is the answer. Not sure how to go about that, but I believe it is key.

Now I'll get down off my soapbox, but in no way I'm I gonna apologize. It needed to be said, cause everybody needs educated once in a while. Even me.

*Triggered

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As I have said numerous times before, kwads and side by sides by their nature cater to the lowest common denominator of off-road enthusiasts. 

Personally, I absolutely &%$#@!ing hate the things and can’t understand what the appeal is. Saying that, I also don’t think responsible users should be lumped in with the dildos that whip donuts in the staging areas or that fly down shared use trails like they are racing Baja.

If the kwad/SxS crowd have the land access ban hammer thrown at them, guess who is next? There is no easy solution here at all outside of self policing and education for all motorized groups. 

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43 minutes ago, CoronaCarl said:

Just what we need, another thread bashing any form of OHV recreation.

You guys are blaming inanimate objects for doing trail damage. Just likes gun bigots blame the gun and not the &%$#@!tard that pulled the trigger.

The &%$#@!tard behind the wheel is doing the damage, that same idiot would find a way to do the damage if the SxS wasn't involved. Either on a motorcycle, quad or in a Jeep or pickup or bronco or whatever.

I'm old enough to have heard these same arguments about quads, hell I can remember reading about &%$#@!tards in 4x4s tearing shit up. Where and more importantly, why do you think Thread Lightly was started and pushed in Four Wheeler magazine and other rags?!!! It needs pushed in the quad and SxS mags and forums.

It definitely wasn't the SxS market that invented &%$#@!tards. &%$#@!tards be &%$#@!tards regardless of what they are piloting!!!

And yep, for your information I own a SxS and a quad and a Jeep and a pickup and even a motorcycle. 

Don't be part of the problem, all your bitching about SxSs is gonna do is get trails shut down. Ask Boab about how the trails behind his place are closed now, because of bitching about the SxS.

Be part of the solution.

I believe education is the answer. Not sure how to go about that, but I believe it is key.

Now I'll get down off my soapbox, but in no way I'm I gonna apologize. It needed to be said, cause everybody needs educated once in a while. Even me.

Greatest comment I’ve ever seen here

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20 hours ago, bweighmaster said:

This is not just a local occourance .  It is nationwide , and close to home ... outlaw riders have no clue as to the disasterous effects they are causing ..  not so much to them , but the whole Off road vehicle industry .  They cause so much damage to public , federal lands , that most of our riding areas have been fenced off and shut down because of them ... I have had to ban 4 wheel vehicles from my property to avert the damage .. Now I only allow family , and some friends to ride motorcycles only at our track and other property .   I have pissed off some people , but after all  ,  It is  my property .. like it , respect it , keep it clean , or stay the hell out ...

Sadly I've lost over 95% of the areas I used to ride.

I had the same issue with our land in Kansas. It got to the point of actually threatening riders they'd be shot if caught on the land. We'd allowed kids to ride for years on the property but a few decided tearing up the ponds, shooting the sheds and other stuff was much more fun. End result, the kids lost the place, something I really regretted having to do. 

Seems respect is something rapidly being lost. :( 

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