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motocross Sewer and the yzf get 2nd !

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40 minutes ago, MANIAC998 said:

I’m only a Yankee then.

Me too, I was never attracted to my sister/cousins so I just wasn't relatable to southerners and always wanted to go back home after a short visit.

Edited by Zinergy
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26 minutes ago, 150dirtcomber said:

Of course yes. 

Did they make it as good as the pumpkin spice lattes? No, but they improved it. That’s the point of testing. 

There’s an entire...and quite large range of variables between “Yamaha sux” and “KTM best” that you seem to intentionally and repeatedly disregard on here. You can admit that extensively testing a blue bike can make it better - while also still believing KTM is the best. I promise it’s not an either or. 

They didn't improve it for dry / slick SLC.  Chad Reed has commented that the bike is difficult to make work across different soil conditions.  Barcia's SLC results seem to reflect that.  And his recent comments about the red KTM as well.

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6 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

They didn't improve it for dry / slick SLC.  Chad Reed has commented that the bike is difficult to make work across different soil conditions.  Barcia's SLC results seem to reflect that.  And his recent comments about the red KTM as well.

I’m talking improving overall. If it’s too difficult to improve on dry conditions then I won’t argue that. I’m siding with Bowman on this and y’all can’t stop me haha. Subjectively speaking his bike looks more stable to my eyes and it seemed he was more comfortable charging harder than previous years on blue. 
 

The bike may not have improved at SLC (I agree) but the bike could also have been worse at SLC in ‘18 and ‘19 as well. Only Barcia knows. 

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1 hour ago, 150dirtcomber said:

Of course yes. 
 

Did they make it as good as the pumpkin spice lattes? No, but they improved it. That’s the point of testing. 
 

There’s an entire...and quite large range of variables between “Yamaha sux” and “KTM best” that you seem to intentionally and repeatedly disregard on here. You can admit that extensively testing a blue bike can make it better - while also still believing KTM is the best. I promise it’s not an either or. 

I think you're getting a bit too wrapped up in it all my friend. I've said over the years the yz450 has improved but I believe it's a flawed bike that will never be right. And in this very thread I believe (maybe it was another one) I commented that the yz250f is a VERY GOOD bike. Much to the chagrin of the Yamafaithful I have nothing against Yamaha, but I do call a spade a spade. Sorry if that rubs you the wrong way. 

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1 hour ago, Zinergy said:

Me too, I was never attracted to my sister/cousins so I just wasn't relatable to southerners and always wanted to go back home after a short visit.

Wanted to get back home to be close to your sister and cousins right...... It's okay man, we won't tell anyone. 

29 minutes ago, 150dirtcomber said:

I’m talking improving overall. If it’s too difficult to improve on dry conditions then I won’t argue that. I’m siding with Bowman on this and y’all can’t stop me haha. Subjectively speaking his bike looks more stable to my eyes and it seemed he was more comfortable charging harder than previous years on blue. 
 

The bike may not have improved at SLC (I agree) but the bike could also have been worse at SLC in ‘18 and ‘19 as well. Only Barcia knows. 

Based on what do you think the bike improved?

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11 minutes ago, KTMRider4Life said:

Wanted to get back home to be close to your sister and cousins right...... It's okay man, we won't tell anyone. 

Based on what do you think the bike improved?

The response with me "wrapped up in it all" you said you think it's improved? Now you are debating me that it hasn't...

Anyhow

- I have faith that Barcia and Villopoto can articulate themselves to the team and that their efforts weren't completely to waste. 

- Overall Barcia's results were better on average, most notably he won A1 while backing it up with a 2nd the next week while battling the flu.

- Again subjective, but to me Barcia looked more comfortable.

- I believe all bikes improve with testing? Why are we debating that a bike improved with extensive testing?

This weird TT logic pops up repeatedly (Kawasaki DNF was rough) so here's another analogy: This is like working out as hard as you can, gaining 20lbs in muscle quickly, all of your fitness stats go up. You feel better than ever. And someone walks up to you and goes "Usain Bolt can run faster than you, so I think you haven't improved your fitness at all."

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I think he was a bit flowery about it. But one thing: "I have to give Ryan Villopoto credit for improving the balance of the bike."

Ah yes...The controversial and debatable take that Ryan Villopoto is a professional who does his job. 🤡

 

...Yes I still think the KTM is better.

Edited by 150dirtcomber
Have to add a shameful disclaimer about KTM
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11 minutes ago, 150dirtcomber said:

The response with me "wrapped up in it all" you said you think it's improved? Now you are debating me that it hasn't...

Anyhow

- I have faith that Barcia and Villopoto can articulate themselves to the team and that their efforts weren't completely to waste. 

- Overall Barcia's results were better on average, most notably he won A1 while backing it up with a 2nd the next week while battling the flu.

- Again subjective, but to me Barcia looked more comfortable.

- I believe all bikes improve with testing? Why are we debating that a bike improved with extensive testing?

This weird TT logic pops up repeatedly (Kawasaki DNF was rough) so here's another analogy: This is like working out as hard as you can, gaining 20lbs in muscle quickly, all of your fitness stats go up. You feel better than ever. And someone walks up to you and goes "Usain Bolt can run faster than you, so I think you haven't improved your fitness at all."

You do seem quite wrapped up in this was my point. I no longer have an axe to grind or a point to make, it's pretty much universally understood at this point that the yz450 is the least favored bike among pros, even less so than Fat Susan somehow. If you want to argue that all the bikes have incrementally improved including the Yamaha I would agree with you. I already stated I thought the bike has improved, are we actually debating something? 

 

I'm as big a Ryan Villopoto fan as you're going to find on this forum, when he was racing I always pulled for him to win. That being said I don't think he's that great of a test rider, that's what he kept Jake Weimer around for. Jake was the better test rider. Even Ryan's mechanic has stated the bike could be wrong and he'd go out there and make it work. 

So maybe there's more that can be done with the YZ450. It's still a flawed design and the sooner they bail on that design for the 450 the sooner they'll have more success. 

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58 minutes ago, KTMRider4Life said:

Wanted to get back home to be close to your sister and cousins right...... It's okay man, we won't tell anyone. 

If only I was born south of the mason dixon.

 

If-anyones-gonna.jpg

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31 minutes ago, KTMRider4Life said:

You do seem quite wrapped up in this was my point. I no longer have an axe to grind or a point to make, it's pretty much universally understood at this point that the yz450 is the least favored bike among pros, even less so than Fat Susan somehow. If you want to argue that all the bikes have incrementally improved including the Yamaha I would agree with you. I already stated I thought the bike has improved, are we actually debating something? 

 

I'm as big a Ryan Villopoto fan as you're going to find on this forum, when he was racing I always pulled for him to win. That being said I don't think he's that great of a test rider, that's what he kept Jake Weimer around for. Jake was the better test rider. Even Ryan's mechanic has stated the bike could be wrong and he'd go out there and make it work. 

So maybe there's more that can be done with the YZ450. It's still a flawed design and the sooner they bail on that design for the 450 the sooner they'll have more success. 

You got me at a catch 22 with: "Why do you think it improved?" with "You're wrapped up in this" when I answer.

To me it comes off as "I'm too stubborn to admit the word of multiple press test riders, Villopoto, Barcia, a team of engineers and staff, so I'm gonna finger point and say others are wrapped up because I have no more substance."

Just say: Yamaha could have improved in 2020 but I still think KTM is the better bike. And I'd completely agree.

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44 minutes ago, KTMRider4Life said:

If you want to argue that all the bikes have incrementally improved including the Yamaha I would agree with you. I already stated I thought the bike has improved, are we actually debating something? 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, 150dirtcomber said:

 

Just say: Yamaha could have improved in 2020 but I still think KTM is the better bike. And I'd completely agree.

I already have more than once, not sure why you're struggling to pull it out of the context. Here I bolded it for you, does this help? Oh wait you wanted me to say the KTM is the better bike? Is that why you're having a hard time?

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1 minute ago, KTMRider4Life said:

 

I already have more than once, not sure why you're struggling to pull it out of the context. Here I bolded it for you, does this help? Oh wait you wanted me to say the KTM is the better bike? Is that why you're having a hard time?

Good we can be best friends now

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27 minutes ago, 150dirtcomber said:

Good we can be best friends now

I'm really glad we settled that, hope you don't lose anymore sleep going forward. Let me know if I can be of more help anytime 🤛

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1 hour ago, 150dirtcomber said:

I think he was a bit flowery about it. But one thing: "I have to give Ryan Villopoto credit for improving the balance of the bike."

That's not really improving the bike, that's chasing setup.  The same underlying issue remains.  Barcia was gushing over the traction his red KTM gets on hard slick conditions.

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In the Racer X video he even made note of Barcia complaining that the bike would work well in some conditions and then be off somewhere else, which has been part of the issue the whole time.

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19 minutes ago, redrider144 said:

That's not really improving the bike, that's chasing setup.  The same underlying issue remains.  Barcia was gushing over the traction his red KTM gets on hard slick conditions.

I guess that comes down to the now subjective definition of "improving the bike." The core issue will always remain unless it's a completely new bike right? They did what they could with what they were given and at the end of the day I think the bike worked better for them in 2020. That's all I'm saying. Whether you want to call that improving the bike or improving set up, polishing a turd...All interchangeable to my point.

I'm happy Barcia is gushing over the traction, I mean I'm glad he went with GasGas entirely.

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18 minutes ago, ah665 said:

In the Racer X video he even made note of Barcia complaining that the bike would work well in some conditions and then be off somewhere else, which has been part of the issue the whole time.

Do you think the 2020 factory YZ450f is better than the 2019 factory YZ450f?

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2 minutes ago, 150dirtcomber said:

Do you think the 2020 factory YZ450f is better than the 2019 factory YZ450f?

Probably a little bit. Since the production 20 bike is better than the 19. And I'd like to think that strides were made to improve the Factory bike over that time. Do I think they rectified the root of the problem? No probably not. And I'm not sure if that will happen until the next gen comes out. 

Edited by ah665
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2 minutes ago, ah665 said:

Probably a little bit. Since the production 20 bike is better than the 19. And I'd like to think that strides were made to improve the Factory bike over that time. Do I think they rectified the root of the problem? No probably not. And I'm not sure if that will happen until the next gen comes out. 

Yeah that’s how I see it as well. 
 

I guess my axe to grind is that from what I’ve seen and read, RV and Barcia (Barcia particularly) worked overtime to get that bike more competitive. I respect that effort on their part and I think it should be acknowledged. 
 

It’d be easy to just go through the motions, collect the paycheck and get through 2020 thinking “why bother?” Knowing that you’re at a disadvantage. But that’s not what Barcia in particular chose to do. 
 

So a couple pages back when I saw “all he did was suck, especially at SLC“ in response to Bowman trying to give them some credit...I then got sucked into the vortex. 

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2 hours ago, KTMRider4Life said:

You do seem quite wrapped up in this was my point. I no longer have an axe to grind or a point to make, it's pretty much universally understood at this point that the yz450 is the least favored bike among pros, even less so than Fat Susan somehow.

That's the part I don't understand, I know of national level pros that if given a choice prefer the YZ450F over the other bikes.  Local pros as well of course.  In fact after the HEP gig ended and Breece had a choice, he was riding blue out here.  Given the results at a national level, I would think red, green, or the Austrian Rainbow is the only logical choice but clearly not everyone feels that way.

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