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supercross JGR Suzuki closing up shop??

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1 hour ago, GBow521 said:

Suzuki didn’t drop support, they made them an offer in line with the current market and their results, they declined it. 
 

 

If the 300k was true, Thats not enough for that outfit.  Maybe they decided to sit out this year and have Jeremy build sponsorship for next year.

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44 minutes ago, 777654321 said:

If the 300k was true, Thats not enough for that outfit.  Maybe they decided to sit out this year and have Jeremy build sponsorship for next year.

Getting their bang for their buck argument is a bit of a double edged sword.  JGR didn't get results, but does Suzuki have some culpability?  How many times could pigmy boy Alex (I can say that because I'm short too) not kickstart his bike easily while others had electric start?  What if JGR picks up the Geico remnants and suddenly starts doing better?  Imagine if Barcia starts winning AND Alex and the JGR team start getting podiums?  It would make Yamaha and Suzuki look pretty bad that's for sure.  Then again, does the casual rider even make informed buying decisions?  I hear stupid statements all the time from people that don't eat live sleep and drink bikes such as, oh yeah those brand X bikes are really fast.  I had an 80 as a kid and they scream.  It will be an interesting year.

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6 hours ago, MotorBoatin said:

Yeah, they're superficially a fork leg. If MXA was more than a comic on the back page of the adds they would have investigated. 

The crap mounting line of action probably meant they were binding. Need a trunnion mount on the arm.

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1 hour ago, mxaniac said:

Getting their bang for their buck argument is a bit of a double edged sword.  JGR didn't get results, but does Suzuki have some culpability?  How many times could pigmy boy Alex (I can say that because I'm short too) not kickstart his bike easily while others had electric start?  What if JGR picks up the Geico remnants and suddenly starts doing better?  Imagine if Barcia starts winning AND Alex and the JGR team start getting podiums?  It would make Yamaha and Suzuki look pretty bad that's for sure.  Then again, does the casual rider even make informed buying decisions?  I hear stupid statements all the time from people that don't eat live sleep and drink bikes such as, oh yeah those brand X bikes are really fast.  I had an 80 as a kid and they scream.  It will be an interesting year.

If i could go back in time, besides all the impallas people are paying house prices for id grabbed me up a few MR 50s and everything with a low pipe. 

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On 11/10/2020 at 6:48 PM, Chaconne said:

Too bad the Chinese don't make a cheap KTM knock off for JGR. That would work good for them.

Gpx tse 250r? Not a mx bike but they could get into enduro.

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15 hours ago, ah665 said:

If Suzuki doesn't want to take the sport serious any longer, then just let them die. Hate to see it, but they have 1 half-assed sort of Factory effort. I'm sure JGR goes above and beyond with what they have to work with. If they are cutting back even more, then it's not worth giving them the time of day, honestly.

How many bikes does Suzuki sell on monday after the weekend races?    Has their past association with JGR increased sales?    Who was their main guy last year, Savatgy?   How many bikes did he sell?

Probably cost a quite a bit to back a factory race team.      Surely that money could be spent to more creatively market their bikes in other ways.

Maybe not having a factory backed supercross team isn't necessarily a death sentence.

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2 hours ago, Just_a_trail_rider said:

How many bikes does Suzuki sell on monday after the weekend races?    Has their past association with JGR increased sales?    Who was their main guy last year, Savatgy?   How many bikes did he sell?

Probably cost a quite a bit to back a factory race team.      Surely that money could be spent to more creatively market their bikes in other ways.

Maybe not having a factory backed supercross team isn't necessarily a death sentence.

All fair points. But I just think in this business, all things go hand-in-hand. A good bike to start, usually helps make a good team with good riders. And I can only assume good sales. 

With Suzukis bikes falling behind with advancements, I can't imagine their sales are great. They were blowing out the 18 450s around here at clearance prices at mid-model year and that was their "all new model." Try to even get a '21 CRF450 or KX250F. If you don't act soon, they will be gone. So the market shows us that sales can't be great. As far as the team, maybe JGR isn't the answer. But they need some level or Factory involvement I think. And at least JGR has the resources and know-how to do things on their own with limited support. If H.E.P. would become Suzukis Factory team, I think that would require more effort on Suzuki's part, but again just me speculating. But if I am JGR, knowing that they are trying to fly the flag for Suzuki and working with bikes that are a little outdated, I think they've done well. They've done their part. But If they could secure another brand, I think they could be better off. It just seems like every year it's the same story with Suzuki and I don't expect them to have a resurgence. 

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13 hours ago, 777654321 said:

If the 300k was true, Thats not enough for that outfit.  Maybe they decided to sit out this year and have Jeremy build sponsorship for next year.

I don’t know how much was offered,just know it was low. There is a lot going on behind the scenes at Suzuki, they want to win, but they are going to do some house cleaning first. 

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59 minutes ago, ah665 said:

All fair points. But I just think in this business, all things go hand-in-hand. A good bike to start, usually helps make a good team with good riders. And I can only assume good sales. 

With Suzukis bikes falling behind with advancements, I can't imagine their sales are great. They were blowing out the 18 450s around here at clearance prices at mid-model year and that was their "all new model." Try to even get a '21 CRF450 or KX250F. If you don't act soon, they will be gone. So the market shows us that sales can't be great. As far as the team, maybe JGR isn't the answer. But they need some level or Factory involvement I think. And at least JGR has the resources and know-how to do things on their own with limited support. If H.E.P. would become Suzukis Factory team, I think that would require more effort on Suzuki's part, but again just me speculating. But if I am JGR, knowing that they are trying to fly the flag for Suzuki and working with bikes that are a little outdated, I think they've done well. They've done their part. But If they could secure another brand, I think they could be better off. It just seems like every year it's the same story with Suzuki and I don't expect them to have a resurgence. 

Why would Suzuki feel the need to have factory involvement in a team?

They have NO involvement in MXGP which actually visits the markets (Indonesia) that Suzuki has very high sales of scooters/bikes to get their name out there.

Honestly, if they want to get their poop in a group, and as much as I dislike the Luongo\InFront Moto scam, from a dollars to eyeballs marketing standpoint it would seem to make a lot more sense to me for Suzuki to have an MXGP presence than a US SX/MX presence.

There was nothing more iconic in overall US motorcycle racing than the decades of dominaning Yoshimura Suzuki factory Superbike team and they pulled the plug on that a few years ago.

Yamaha has run without "direct" factory involvement before, and are doing it again in US motocross.

You are absolutely correct in that if Suzuki were to make HEP or Bar-X a "factory" team it is going to cost them a lot more $ than it would to keep JGR in the fold.  JGR has access to a lot of stuff that a factory team requires on their own due to the car racing side or is already there that they won't just "hand over" to a different factory Suzuki effort.

I am sure that there is a LOT more going on in the background.  As to what Suzuki's actual support offer was to JGR, or what stipulations may have been with it, none of us will probably ever know the actual truth, at least that can be told, or when it is told (say in a forum post) most of us will call BS even if it is true (because we are idiots at keyboards).

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1 minute ago, eastreich said:

Why would Suzuki feel the need to have factory involvement in a team?

They have NO involvement in MXGP which actually visits the markets (Indonesia) that Suzuki has very high sales of scooters/bikes to get their name out there.

 

The same reason that any team would. When you are selling racing motorcycles and there are zero teams and zero privateers with your bikes on the gate, how is that good marketing for the company? If anything KTM (Husky/Gasgas) as of late shows you what happens when you do sink money, effort and R&D into your bikes and race teams. Like I said, it all goes hand-in-hand.

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Just now, ah665 said:

The same reason that any team would. When you are selling racing motorcycles and there are zero teams and zero privateers with your bikes on the gate, how is that good marketing for the company? If anything KTM (Husky/Gasgas) as of late shows you what happens when you do sink money, effort and R&D into your bikes and race teams. Like I said, it all goes hand-in-hand.

I am not disagreeing with you, I am just trying to think what (at least the past) Suzuki brass is thinking.

Perhaps they feel that they don't need a MXGP presence because they hit those larger Indonesian/Asian markets with their MotoGP involvement: winning the title in the year of no Marc Marquez has to be good for Suzuki.

Suzuki has obviously felt that the US side of things wasn't that important for marketing if they pulled their famous SBK team out, and it stands to reason that they don't care as much about the MX side of things right now either.

Will that change in the future?  Probably.  I can see Suzuki being a few decades behind Honda, Yamaha, KTM, etc... and having Bar-X become the factory team in say 2022 that has a direct amateur team to go along with it.  Kinda funny when the other manufacturers are starting to pull back a bit from having so much factory support at the Am level.

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11 hours ago, 777654321 said:

If i could go back in time, besides all the impallas people are paying house prices for id grabbed me up a few MR 50s and everything with a low pipe. 

Trading cards would probably be good bang for the buck.  I wonder what's gained value the most in the last 50 years.  Probably not Suzuki stock.

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36 minutes ago, ah665 said:

The same reason that any team would. When you are selling racing motorcycles and there are zero teams and zero privateers with your bikes on the gate, how is that good marketing for the company? If anything KTM (Husky/Gasgas) as of late shows you what happens when you do sink money, effort and R&D into your bikes and race teams. Like I said, it all goes hand-in-hand.

That's the thing, I don't know that Suzuki is actively trying to sell racing motorcycles anymore.  They are low volume high development cost.  I think they're going for things like the high volume low cost scooter market.  I haven't done a market study, but that's my perception.  Essentially markets where they can compete based on manufacturing proficiency and not dump tons of money in to R&D.

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4 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

Trading cards would probably be good bang for the buck.  I wonder what's gained value the most in the last 50 years.  Probably not Suzuki stock.

Apple stock.  Maybe IBM if you cashed out at the right point.

Property in the San Francisco/"Silicon Valley" area would have been a really good investment too.

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ROI.

If Suzuki isn't willing to invest time and money to update their bikes and actually make them competitive, why waste money on a professional race team?  It actually seems counterintuitive to continue to invest large sums of money in a professional race team that doesn't win, or even podium.  What's the ROI on highlighting your mediocrity week after week?

 

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Just now, eastreich said:

Apple stock.  Maybe IBM if you cashed out at the right point.

Property in the San Francisco/"Silicon Valley" area would have been a really good investment too.

I just looked it up, Altria stock.  Cigarette company is the highest performing stock since 1968.  Apparently technology isn't as addictive as nicotine.

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11 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

That's the thing, I don't know that Suzuki is actively trying to sell racing motorcycles anymore.  They are low volume high development cost.  I think they're going for things like the high volume low cost scooter market.  I haven't done a market study, but that's my perception.  Essentially markets where they can compete based on manufacturing proficiency and not dump tons of money in to R&D.

Right. And that's fine. But I'm saying if that is the case, then I just accept that they will not have a presence at the races anymore. History shows you either invest or get left behind, in this sport/market. But if they choose not to do that, then they are basically admitting that they are willing to get left behind. It happens. But typically it's usually when a sport is in decline, like when the Factories dropped out of ATV racing  in the early 90s and again after the recession in 08. But I don't currently see SX/MX as a dying sport, but of course everything has taken a hit to some degree, due to Covid. But this was a long time coming for Suzuki. 

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5 minutes ago, ah665 said:

Right. And that's fine. But I'm saying if that is the case, then I just accept that they will not have a presence at the races anymore. History shows you either invest or get left behind, in this sport/market. But if they choose not to do that, then they are basically admitting that they are willing to get left behind. It happens. But typically it's usually when a sport is in decline, like when the Factories dropped out of ATV racing  in the early 90s and again after the recession in 08. But I don't currently see SX/MX as a dying sport, but of course everything has taken a hit to some degree, due to Covid. But this was a long time coming for Suzuki. 

Yes, I think we're agreeing.

Electric bikes are the intriguing part of the equation.  When do you enter the market?  Alta was too soon.  If you wait too long the market will pass you by. AMA needs to get on board of you want to make competition bikes.  Government regulation of fossil fuels is another parameter in all this.  I can see how it could really make or break a company trying to balance timing, technology, marketing, and lobbying right now.

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1 minute ago, mxaniac said:

Yes, I think we're agreeing.

Electric bikes are the intriguing part of the equation.  When do you enter the market?  Alta was too soon.  If you wait too long the market will pass you by. AMA needs to get on board of you want to make competition bikes.  Government regulation of fossil fuels is another parameter in all this.  I can see how it could really make or break a company trying to balance timing, technology, marketing, and lobbying right now.

Good points. It would be nice to see an avenue for the Ebikes to start coming into the sport. Like it or not, we will all probably see a transition, at some point. Maybe Suzuki has an incredible MX Ebike that they will make a comeback with, who knows. 

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