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DesertCR

motocross Kenny won on a stock bike....

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6 hours ago, EnglertRacing said:

Those are standard things that they have been messing with since what the early 90s? (well i guess many of the people who have been messing with that stuff have come and gone... but shouldn't the effects be understood shouldn't the industry veterans maybe guide the testing processes of these components)

PS i have always thought the skid plate thing was a bit dubious for torsional, lateral or longitudinal flex....

I read your post like you were either 

talking about someone like JGR making too many silly things, for example, battery boxes, air boxes, ecu holders, and tons of trick shit bits and bobs that hardly matters, and somehow getting lost due to that which seems rather improbable.

or that you were implying they are extensively modifying or scratch building the frames which is no longer allowed.....

back to the typical chassis modifications

and if the stuff that the original design team came up with was so great (I mean it is sometimes great but priced for wide consumption) then why does nearly EVERYONE F with it? and if its SOOOO dialed and engineered to work together say it was perfect, what happens to it when Fast guy wants to and needs to go from 48mm to 50mm forks wouldn't that just ruin everything else?

Ideally a complex system has testing done to validate analysis.  That isn't feasible here so everything is done by testing, which doesn't always tell you "why"?  So the podcast discussed teams hiring a bunch of guys who build a bunch of custom components to try and make a bike better without identifying problems that need addressed up front.  This doesn't sound so far fetched to me.  As an example lets say a guy worked for Yamaha and found 2mm thicker front motor mounts made the front end not push.  Another guy worked for KTM and found they do the whoops better with a larger upper shock bolt.  So they both get hired for a Honda team and make those changes to the Honda.  If things like that actually happen, then yeah I can see the bike being all jacked up.

As for the up front design, they are designed for a target market with budget limitations both on the bike and the R&D.  It's a compromise that suits many buyers just fine.  Many of the people I know that would buy an exhaust system just wanted the bike to be louder.  Go figure.  It makes sense to identify a weakness on a stock bike and improve it.  I don't think it makes sense to aimlessly change a bunch of crap assuming it will be better afterwards.  The podcast asserted this is happening. 

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15 minutes ago, Chaconne said:

Ya I can ride off of my driveway too. But I would go to the UK in a second it is fun place in its own way. I love the UK and Ireland. Like all places they have their pluses and minuses. Overall a plus for me at least. 

I'll get to Aussie and NZ at some point but it is a longer haul and harder to get employers to pay for it. I work for a Brit tech company so it is a little easier to justify travel to the UK. I would love to catch the Aussie Open as part of a vacation then do some dirtriding out in the country. :ride:

If ya ever make it, give me a shout, I live in Gippsland Victoria. We have about the best trail riding in the country. 

If you mean the Aussie Tennis Open, I'm about 1 and a 1/2 hours away. Train or car.

If you're talking Golf. I love golf. I'll take you down to the Mornington Peninsula.

 

If I was a drinker, I'd go to the UK. Ireland does look nice, plus I'm partial to chicks with bright green eyes lol
We had an Irish bloke staying at my mates. We were going to take him riding. We're out the front. He gets on the DRZ250. We asked him if he could ride, said he could. Held the trottle wide open, shot across the rd, and into the people's across the rds, brick fence 😂. Totalled the bike.
I was drinking back then, he was best valued at night in the clubs and pubs.
 

Edited by Drop-Bear
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3 minutes ago, Drop-Bear said:

If ya ever make it, give me a shout, I live in Gippsland Victoria. We have about the best trail riding in the country. 

If you mean the Aussie Tennis Open, I'm about 1 and a 1/2 hours away. Train or car.

If you're talking Golf. I love golf. I'll take you down to the Mornington Peninsula.

 

If I was a drinker, I'd go to the UK. Ireland does look nice, plus I'm partial to chicks with bright green eyes lol
We had an Irish bloke staying at my mates. We were going to take him riding. We're out the front. He gets on the DRZ250. We asked him if he could ride, said he could. Held the trottle wide open, shot across the rd, and into the people's across the rds, brick fence 😂. Totalled the bike.
I was drinking back then, he was best valued at night in the clubs and pubs.
 

Tennis. Love everything about Aussie btw weather, beaches, sports, chickarenas... Heaven.

I don't know what it is about some people. Even when I was a kid a guy from my school was at my house said he knew how to ride... He got on my Hodaka Combat Wombat and WOT right into the woods, luckily he sank the front wheel into a deep mud puddle and saved my bike but broke his arm and a few ribs sailing over the bars into the trees. My dad said to me later "you learned a valuable lesson today about letting a numbnuts use your stuff".:cheers:

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16 minutes ago, Chaconne said:

My dad said to me later "you learned a valuable lesson today about letting a numbnuts use your stuff".

A numbnutz was already using your stuff though.  Net change = 0.

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Just now, redrider144 said:

A numbnutz was already using your stuff though.  Net change = 0.

Well a blockhead from Miserableasouri was not though. Net change = +1.

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2 hours ago, mog said:

Yes not far 

 

The Midlands and south are pretty much full of people ,you don't have riding areas apart from Mx tracks and a few enduro tracks etc 

 

Most places you ride are organised events 

 

You can ride on some trails on a road registered bike but I have never gone into that 

 

The north ( Scotland ) west ( wales ) and east sides are more open 

 

But Wales is where most enduros are ,it's a good 3-4 hours from me 

 

Never been Scotland,I hear the weather is worse than where I am ,that has no appeal lol 

 

It's about 6 hours from me 

 

I'm a track guy , I know woods etc would be fun but it's a different world here , you don't have public land you can go for miles 

An enduro track?  Sounds like it sucks.  

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7 hours ago, mxaniac said:

Ideally a complex system has testing done to validate analysis.  That isn't feasible here so everything is done by testing, which doesn't always tell you "why"?  So the podcast discussed teams hiring a bunch of guys who build a bunch of custom components to try and make a bike better without identifying problems that need addressed up front.  This doesn't sound so far fetched to me.  As an example lets say a guy worked for Yamaha and found 2mm thicker front motor mounts made the front end not push.  Another guy worked for KTM and found they do the whoops better with a larger upper shock bolt.  So they both get hired for a Honda team and make those changes to the Honda.  If things like that actually happen, then yeah I can see the bike being all jacked up.

As for the up front design, they are designed for a target market with budget limitations both on the bike and the R&D.  It's a compromise that suits many buyers just fine.  Many of the people I know that would buy an exhaust system just wanted the bike to be louder.  Go figure.  It makes sense to identify a weakness on a stock bike and improve it.  I don't think it makes sense to aimlessly change a bunch of crap assuming it will be better afterwards.  The podcast asserted this is happening. 

I remember them doing a lot of meaningless stuff to James bike but couldn’t find any info. This article is about Brayton’s bike but it gives you an idea of how JGR treats their bikes. IMO the team spent way to much time on tinkering 

 

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-retro-test-we-ride-justin-braytons-2010-jgr-yamaha-yz450f/

“The team’s suspension guru, Jonny Oler, is a fan of Frankenstein creations. The team uses Showa forks, even though the 2010 Yamaha YZ450F (just like in years past) comes stock with Kayaba units. Oler uses parts off various models of Showa forks to create what he calls “F-Type” units. The beefy 49mm forks aren’t available to the public, nor are they even accessible to factory riders. Only JGR riders get the F-Type setup. The NT shock, labeled “Version 2.0” by the team, contains a Renton titanium spring and is also very unique”

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15 hours ago, mog said:

Go away 

We don't have area like that ,this is the UK 

BOJO can go Fk hisself, get out and ride like a freeman. Just dont stop for anyone. they aint gonna gun you down over there.

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10 hours ago, MotorBoatin said:

I remember them doing a lot of meaningless stuff to James bike but couldn’t find any info. This article is about Brayton’s bike but it gives you an idea of how JGR treats their bikes. IMO the team spent way to much time on tinkering 

 

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-retro-test-we-ride-justin-braytons-2010-jgr-yamaha-yz450f/

“The team’s suspension guru, Jonny Oler, is a fan of Frankenstein creations. The team uses Showa forks, even though the 2010 Yamaha YZ450F (just like in years past) comes stock with Kayaba units. Oler uses parts off various models of Showa forks to create what he calls “F-Type” units. The beefy 49mm forks aren’t available to the public, nor are they even accessible to factory riders. Only JGR riders get the F-Type setup. The NT shock, labeled “Version 2.0” by the team, contains a Renton titanium spring and is also very unique”

It could be because the bike was shit. It's not like if they had left it closer to stock that it would've been great. They were doing a lot of crazy things to try to get the weight placement right (engine relocation etc) and get James to be able to move forward more. So that was why he had the custom tank/shroud and also they ended up spear-heading the wrap-around exhaust which Yamaha ended up adopting instead of the tornado OEM set-up. So again, yes sometimes teams can stray away from a good setting, but let's not act like JGR tinkered with a bike that could've been good. If anything, I give them credit for what they did with that model because it had a lot of flaws.

Edited by ah665
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23 minutes ago, ah665 said:

It could be because the bike was shit. It's not like if they had left it closer to stock that it would've been great. They were doing a lot of crazy thing to try to get the weight placement right (engine relocation etc) and get James to be able to move forward more. So that was why he had the custom tank/shroud and also they ended up spear-heading the wrap-around exhaust which Yamaha ended up adopting instead of the tornado OEM set-up. So again, yes sometimes teams can stray away from a good setting, but let's no act like JGR tinkered with a bike that could've been good. If anything, I give them credit for what they did with that model because it had a lot of flaws.

The did try to polish a turd 

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On 11/16/2020 at 5:17 PM, Chaconne said:

Hey isn't this the same guy in another post claiming the KTM team rides on stock bikes???

I know of one occasion when Caselli rode a bone stock KTM 250 to an overall in a D-37 desert race . They didnt even put a stabilizer on it ...it was fresh out of the crate . Twist the clickers and win ! That's a first ...that I know of . 

 

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On 11/16/2020 at 3:01 PM, DesertCR said:

MX title on a stock (besides suspension etc) bike....

Besides optimum squish, timing and cams degreed using a wheel and stop, port matching and de flashing, etc. Triple clamps are likely aftermarket too.

Two race bikes sitting side by side have more similar specs that two production bikes that rolled off the assembly line in consecutive order.

But yes, design, consistency of metal alloys and the ability to implement new technology at breakneck speeds has come a long way.

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On 11/17/2020 at 10:33 AM, BOAB said:

I heard he was using stock air in his tires.

Imported from Japan?

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I find it interesting that when Reed was running his own team he was leasing a factory ECU.  From everything I've been reading and hearing the ECU on a modern 4T is all the difference.  

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3 hours ago, mxaniac said:

I find it interesting that when Reed was running his own team he was leasing a factory ECU.  From everything I've been reading and hearing the ECU on a modern 4T is all the difference.  

I suspect there is a lot of traction control involved which i find gross...

 

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11 hours ago, mxaniac said:

I find it interesting that when Reed was running his own team he was leasing a factory ECU.  From everything I've been reading and hearing the ECU on a modern 4T is all the difference.  

Factory ecu and transmissions are the biggest advantage to a factory team 

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