Moto Mt Rushmore

[eastreich]

Just now, mxaniac said:

It's hard to argue against that list.  But when you look what Gary Jones accomplished not just with winning 4 championships, but changing the bikes and influencing the factories, I can't think of anyone that influenced the entire sport globally except perhaps DeCoster.  So who comes off your list?  Everts and Carmichael were far too dominant to eliminate.  Hannah is possibly my favorite rider of all time.  DeCoster inspired a bazzilion Americans to ride, then he managed them and took them on the world stage.  Unfortunately I think Hannah comes off, even though he's my favorite, just because Jones did so much beyond just win championships.  Tough call, I'm torn.  Hard to imagine leaving McGrath off the list too.

I can't argue that and really agree with the logic.  Take out Bob and put Gary in.  Maybe even the whole Jones' Gang as one entity for what they did.

[mxaniac]

4 minutes ago, eastreich said:

I can't argue that and really agree with the logic.  Take out Bob and put Gary in.  Maybe even the whole Jones' Gang as one entity for what they did.

Then you watch this and it makes me flip flop: 

 

[eastreich]

Just now, mxaniac said:

Then you watch this and it makes me flip flop: 

 

If Bob wasn't that important or influential, people still wouldn't be asking him his opinion on dirt bike stuff...

It is a really tough call.  I won't be mad at anyone that would choose Jones over Hannah or vice versa.

If someone were to do road racing, I don't think there is much for arguments to be made for the top 3 just like in MX.  Seems to me it has to be a top 3 of Agostini, King Kenny, Rossi.  It is that same 4th position that is the kicker.  Doohan?  Joey Dunlop?  Rea?  Foggy?

[CORider63]

1 hour ago, ah665 said:

I know it is frowned upon but I can only comment on riders that I have watched on a regular basis. It wouldn't be fair for me to add guys that I've only seen bits and pieces from highlights etc. So that is going to be AMA riders only and people since I've been alive and watching. Anyways, RC, MC, JS7 and RV. I'd love to put someone from the late 80s in there but it's tough for me to do that. Stanton and RJ are right there. And also tough leaving out Dungey and potentially Reed. 

Screw that!  Australia can get their OWN damn mountain!

 

 

 

?

[MotorBoatin]

1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

10?  I count 2 125 MX + 2 450 SX + 1 450 MX (regional SX isn't shit, nobody counts those).

So that's 5.  Are you rounding up?

He might be one of those that counts the World Supercross Championship and MXON wins separately

Most Bubba fans do in order to make themselves feel better 

Edited November 18, 2020 by MotorBoatin

[redrider144]

34 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

Unfortunately I think Hannah comes off,

Screw Everts, Bob Hannah stays!

[mxaniac]

If you watch that Hannah video I posted you really get to see the phenom that he was.  He conducts that ceremony like it was a roast in a way that only Bob Hannah can do.

[mxaniac]

25 minutes ago, eastreich said:

If Bob wasn't that important or influential, people still wouldn't be asking him his opinion on dirt bike stuff...

It is a really tough call.  I won't be mad at anyone that would choose Jones over Hannah or vice versa.

If someone were to do road racing, I don't think there is much for arguments to be made for the top 3 just like in MX.  Seems to me it has to be a top 3 of Agostini, King Kenny, Rossi.  It is that same 4th position that is the kicker.  Doohan?  Joey Dunlop?  Rea?  Foggy?

I don't know MotoGP as well, I immediately think of Rossi, Agostini, Roberts, Lawson, Spencer, perhaps Wayne Rainey.  But that's mostly just because I'm American so I'm more likely to hear American names.  Looking at the win list, Ángel Nieto is obviously a big deal yet I've never heard of him.  Oh and Marc Márquez, I've heard about him just being next level.  I just don't watch it very often.  SX and AMA MX is about the only thing I can think of I watch regularly as I'm not very big on TV.

[150dirtcomber]

1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

We're talking MX Mt Rushmore.  There are a ton of potential names and only 4 spots.  I would auto exclude anyone that noped out of defending (aside from retirement) a premier class championship.  Has nothing to do specifically with JS7.

And I was responding to the statement “James is like a football team who can’t survive the playoffs, struggling to ever get a championship.” Specifically  

As I said in This same thread “ I’m Still not sure if I’d put him up there.” (Which means even if I defend some of his choices and validate the championships he DID have, I’d still have a hard time putting him up there.)
 

I wasn’t defending that he should be up there. I was debating the idea that he “struggled” to ever win a championship. Context is important Red, I wasn’t targeting you or where you’d put James haha. 

[sheath]

Mt. Rushmore is "American", so I think it should have faces of American Racers.  Just my opinion, and not trying to be "isolationist".  So many amazing racers from all over the world have created the fan base, and made the sport what it is today.

My Top 4 for American MX Riders on Rushmore would be (in no particular order, like the real Mt. Rushmore). Gary Jones, Rick Johnson, Jeremy McGrath, James Stewart.   These four guys really brought fans to the sport, and moved it forward.  

But there are so many more riders that did too.  Guys Like O-Show, who today are helping shape the riders, of the present and future.   I think we need about 10 Mt. Rushmore's to capture the group of Americans who made the sport great, and probably another 20 beyond that, to include all the incredible European riders, like Torsten Hallman, Roger Decoster, etc., who have affected our sport immensely. 

Then there are all the off-road racers like Malcom Smith, Steve McQueen, Jack Penton, who probably sold more bikes than any MX racers ever.

What a history!

[GBow521]

Stewart brought a ton of people to the sport that would’ve never came to a race if he wasn’t there. Plus he  literally transformed the way people ride and his influence is heavy today in the way every kid rides. 

 If you don’t put him up there because he skipped out on a title, the problem might just be you. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by GBow521

[150dirtcomber]

25 minutes ago, GBow521 said:

Stewart brought a ton of people to the sport that would’ve never came to a race if he wasn’t there. Plus he  literally transformed the way people ride and his influence is heavy today in the way every kid rides. 

 If you don’t put him up there because he skipped out on a title, the problem might just be you. 

Pretty much how I see it. If you interpret “greatest” outside of just stats. 
 

We all see his reality show as a joke, but maybe it helped boost the internal economy of Supercross and got more eyes on the sport. Maybe if there was a crappy reality show on a major network now, companies like GEICO would see the value in continuing sponsorship. 
 

I think the racers in the video listed James because he was influential and inspirational to them. Does he deserve to be? Maybe not to some. Anyways my point being that there’s a multitude of way people can interpret greatness and it comes down to personal values. If he brought a lot of eyes and money into the sport - that can be seen as pretty great as well as championships. 

[mxaniac]

1 hour ago, GBow521 said:

Stewart brought a ton of people to the sport that would’ve never came to a race if he wasn’t there. Plus he  literally transformed the way people ride and his influence is heavy today in the way every kid rides. 

 If you don’t put him up there because he skipped out on a title, the problem might just be you. 

I see McGrath as the guy who brought the sport the most non-riding fans. You didn't see Tyco making RC toys and mainstream TV commercials with dirt bike riders until Jeremy.  JS7 certainly impacted technique.  So did Joel Roberts though with the cross up. 6 world championships and he transformed riding technique and he's not been on any lists.  So I don't think calling people a problem because they didn't pick JS7 is fair given all the omissions.  It's really hard to come up with just 4 names.

[MotorBoatin]

1 hour ago, GBow521 said:

Stewart brought a ton of people to the sport that would’ve never came to a race if he wasn’t there. Plus he  literally transformed the way people ride and his influence is heavy today in the way every kid rides. 

 If you don’t put him up there because he skipped out on a title, the problem might just be you. 

It’s MX Rushmore not Riding Rushmore

The guy is probably the best I’ve ever seen on a SX track and right behind RC outdoors but with all that talent he fell short IMO. Motocross is racing and Stewart’s race craft was seriously lacking

[GBow521]

6 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

I see McGrath as the guy who brought the sport the most non-riding fans. You didn't see Tyco making RC toys and mainstream TV commercials with dirt bike riders until Jeremy.  JS7 certainly impacted technique.  So did Joel Roberts though with the cross up. 6 world championships and he transformed riding technique and he's not been on any lists.  So I don't think calling people a problem because they didn't pick JS7 is fair given all the omissions.  It's really hard to come up with just 4 names.

If you don’t want Stew on your list because you have a good argument for other riders, cool. But to say a guy who is second on the supercross win list and has 5 national championships doesn’t deserve it because you think his show was a joke or he crashed to much is just stupid. 

[GBow521]

1 minute ago, MotorBoatin said:

It’s MX Rushmore not Riding Rushmore

The guy is probably the best I’ve ever seen on a SX track and right behind RC outdoors but with all that talent he fell short IMO. Motocross is racing and Stewart’s race craft was seriously lacking

Second on the supercross wins list, one undefeated outdoor season and 5 national titles say you’re wrong. 
 

 Should he have won more titles? Absolutely, but you can’t judge on what should’ve been. And yes, I agree, great rider, lacked championship know how.  

[mxaniac]

I think it's interesting when Big James was on the SML show in SLC.  He contends James wasn't the most talented guy ever and in fact came up with the scrub by failing at trying to mimic what others were doing.  He says Malcolm is the one with the natural talent.

[redrider144]

2 hours ago, GBow521 said:

If you don’t want Stew on your list because you have a good argument for other riders, cool. But to say a guy who is second on the supercross win list and has 5 national championships doesn’t deserve it because you think his show was a joke or he crashed to much is just stupid. 

When there are only 4 positions and maybe 20 people that arguably could belong, I start looking for ways to eliminate people.  Blowing off defending a championship, um yeah that's going to exclude YOU from MY list.

And that doesn't make me stupid, racist, or anything else.

There's really only 3 open spots because RC gets the automatic spot #1.  And stepping past a guy like Bob Hannah to put JS7 up there, um no, no, just no.

Edited November 19, 2020 by redrider144

[150dirtcomber]

1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

When there are only 4 positions and maybe 20 people that arguably could belong, I start looking for ways to eliminate people.  Blowing off defending a championship, um yeah that's going to exclude YOU from MY list.

And that doesn't make me stupid, racist, or anything else.

There's really only 3 open spots because RC gets the automatic spot #1.  And stepping past a guy like Bob Hannah to put JS7 up there, um no, no, just no.

I think that’s fair. But the “It’s MX list not Riding” is speaking like something subjective is objective fact. I think a better response would be like “I value championships the most so my racers are x x x and x instead of James.”

 

But there’s a lot of ‘James doesn’t meet my personal requirements so nobody else should put him up there either’ talk going on. Kind of one of those circular topics that plays out like: you can’t tell me who to pick but I can tell you who to pick lol. 

[redrider144]

6 hours ago, 150dirtcomber said:

I think that’s fair. But the “It’s MX list not Riding” is speaking like something subjective is objective fact. I think a better response would be like “I value championships the most so my racers are x x x and x instead of James.”

But there’s a lot of ‘James doesn’t meet my personal requirements so nobody else should put him up there either’ talk going on. Kind of one of those circular topics that plays out like: you can’t tell me who to pick but I can tell you who to pick lol. 

Meyer was basically saying, it's not a "most talented" list.  If that were the case, Ron Lechien should be up there, and nobody is talking about him.

People are STILL talking about Bob Hannah.  Part of the reason is, he's a great person to interview.  He also still cares about fans all this time later.  I was in Idaho a few years ago and looked him up.   Bob was willing to meet up with me if I could make it.  I was unfortunately a bit too far away.  

JS7 more or less disappeared and I don't expect that to change much.  I don't fault him for that at all, he's certainly earned it.  But he's no Hannah, DeCoster, etc and there's too many other people that are more deserving of being on a mountain.