Homemade "race gas" experiences

[Randy K]

Been experimenting with race gas additives in non ethanol 92 octane fuel, not the off the shelf stuff but the kind you pickup in at a local chemical dealer... In my case a shell refinery by my hometown where my uncle Chris works at(good deals) and have been mixing acetone@ 110 octane and xylene@ 117 octane in small batches with marvels mystery oil to help make the fuel a little more plastic tank friendly. Acetone is added to shell premium at a 3% by volume and acetone is used as a fuel injector cleaner as well. I have personally used 10% acetone by volume in 92 octane fuel for 10 gallons and by the math it is roughly 95-98 octane with marvels mystery oil as the wild card in the octane rating hence the rough range.

 

 I was wondering if anyone else has any experiences with homemade "race gas"? I have heard many horror stories that usually involve them not using anhydrous(no water) chemicals and blowing up or melting internals

i would love to hear peoples experiences if you have any as this topic really interests me

[mlatour]

I've never experimented with either Acetone or Xylene but have always kept a can of the later in my bike trailer

in the event myself or someone at the track ever gets a bad batch of gas. 

 

I hope you are getting decent prices as looking up what is currently sold at our large hardware/auto parts chain stores in Canada (Canadian Tire)

a 1 quart can (946ml) of Acetone is 12$ CAD plus taxes, rounded off to 1liter, that equals to 227$ (again before taxes) for a 18.9 liter (5 gallon) pail,

while Sunoco Standard 110 octane race fuel is readily available at 120-140$ CAD per 5 gallon pail.

 

For reference, as of today:

12$ CAD = 9.18$ USD

227$ CAD = 174$ USD

130$ CAD = 100$ USD

Edited November 20, 2020 by mlatour

[Turn,TheScrew]

All that math..

He isn't running 100%acetone 

You also used a quart as examples,  which is the most expensive route.  Reach your hand down 1 shelf and grab the gallon.

Edited November 20, 2020 by Turn,TheScrew

[Randy K]

4 hours ago, Turn,TheScrew said:

All that math..

He isn't running 100%acetone 

You also used a quart as examples,  which is the most expensive route.  Reach your hand down 1 shelf and grab the gallon.

Running pure acetone for sure but im being conservative with octane ratings with my mix as i know the minimum for the amount im using plus the added marvels mystery oil which is an unknown octane rating at least to me. Guess i need a pdf of the base chemical spread sheet if i can find one

[Randy K]

8 hours ago, mlatour said:

I've never experimented with either Acetone or Xylene but have always kept a can of the later in my bike trailer

in the event myself or someone at the track ever gets a bad batch of gas. 

 

I hope you are getting decent prices as looking up what is currently sold at our large hardware/auto parts chain stores in Canada (Canadian Tire)

a 1 quart can (946ml) of Acetone is 12$ CAD plus taxes, rounded off to 1liter, that equals to 227$ (again before taxes) for a 18.9 liter (5 gallon) pail,

while Sunoco Standard 110 octane race fuel is readily available at 120-140$ CAD per 5 gallon pail.

 

For reference, as of today:

12$ CAD = 9.18$ USD

227$ CAD = 174$ USD

130$ CAD = 100$ USD

Im getting a employee discount as my uncle gets base chemical for a tad over cost to produce. Im getting acetone for 30$ for 5 gallons and xylene at 32$ per 5 gallons, non ethanol gas(local marina gas) at 4.05$ per gallon. Forgot to add this to the thread

[298]

8 hours ago, mlatour said:

I've never experimented with either Acetone or Xylene but have always kept a can of the later in my bike trailer

in the event myself or someone at the track ever gets a bad batch of gas. 

 

I hope you are getting decent prices as looking up what is currently sold at our large hardware/auto parts chain stores in Canada (Canadian Tire)

a 1 quart can (946ml) of Acetone is 12$ CAD plus taxes, rounded off to 1liter, that equals to 227$ (again before taxes) for a 18.9 liter (5 gallon) pail,

while Sunoco Standard 110 octane race fuel is readily available at 120-140$ CAD per 5 gallon pail.

 

For reference, as of today:

12$ CAD = 9.18$ USD

227$ CAD = 174$ USD

130$ CAD = 100$ USD

Torco 110 is only $90 CAD here in Ontario

[Randy K]

Just now, 298 said:

Torco 110 is only $90 CAD here in Ontario

Not bad on price comparison really. Starting to think my local motorcycle shop is charging an arm and leg for 95 octane fuel at 90$ usd

[Randy K]

9 hours ago, mlatour said:

I've never experimented with either Acetone or Xylene but have always kept a can of the later in my bike trailer

in the event myself or someone at the track ever gets a bad batch of gas. 

 

I hope you are getting decent prices as looking up what is currently sold at our large hardware/auto parts chain stores in Canada (Canadian Tire)

a 1 quart can (946ml) of Acetone is 12$ CAD plus taxes, rounded off to 1liter, that equals to 227$ (again before taxes) for a 18.9 liter (5 gallon) pail,

while Sunoco Standard 110 octane race fuel is readily available at 120-140$ CAD per 5 gallon pail.

 

For reference, as of today:

12$ CAD = 9.18$ USD

227$ CAD = 174$ USD

130$ CAD = 100$ USD

Thanks for the reply, im getting base chemicals at 30-32$ usd per 5 gallons so i am getting an unfair deal compared to many people but then again im skipping the mark up of chemicals as they go through supply chains and eventually end up at double the base cost or more depending on how many hands it goes through.

[eastreich]

22 minutes ago, Randy K said:

Not bad on price comparison really. Starting to think my local motorcycle shop is charging an arm and leg for 95 octane fuel at 90$ usd

Cost for the fuel is always dependent on how far is has to be shipped, and what volume the retailer has to buy.  In my area, a 5 gallon pail of VP T4 runs right around $80, but there isn't a big market and it is a lot farther to ship.  Same 5 gallon pail was only $70 when I picked some up in Vegas a little while ago.  

But for a bike shop, they should be buying it by the drum (steeper discounts) and then selling it to you when you bring in your own can.  That is how we did it at the dealer I used to work for.  We could get drums of race fuel directly through Polaris (part of our quarterly bulk oil purchase) for cheap as the cost of shipping was negated with it coming to the shop added to 2 pallets full of oil.  We sold it for $12-15 a gallon (110 leaded or 100 unleaded).

[dclass_destroyer]

This sounds super redneck.. and dangerous..

 

 

sign me up!

[highmarker]

Ran 10% toluene in pump fuel, purchased in 5 gal cans from a paint supply house. Used to be cheap but regulation from the "war on drugs" really cranked the price up and had federal forms to sign at purchase.  It worked to chase deto away with a high compression build. But at the next rebuild I found the rubber in the reed block was de laminating.  Also noticed the piston crown was more washed. 911 had made 100ll av harder to get as they gated access to the pumps at our local air field so thought Id try it, wouldn't do it again.

[Randy K]

3 hours ago, highmarker said:

Ran 10% toluene in pump fuel, purchased in 5 gal cans from a paint supply house. Used to be cheap but regulation from the "war on drugs" really cranked the price up and had federal forms to sign at purchase.  It worked to chase deto away with a high compression build. But at the next rebuild I found the rubber in the reed block was de laminating.  Also noticed the piston crown was more washed. 911 had made 100ll av harder to get as they gated access to the pumps at our local air field so thought Id try it, wouldn't do it again.

interesting, i live in the san juan islands in Washington state and have a small airport near by but have never really wanted to try leaded fuel as i ride in small tight trails and have someone always on my rear fender and worry about the toxicity of the fuel. I am running my gas in a 4 stroke so no reeds but think i will check crankshaft seal next time i get new clutch plates as i have a bit of ocd when it comes to my maintenance

[Adam Meyerson]

For Avgas you should check with your local fuel distributor. I’ve ordered it by 55 gallon drum and had it delivered the nice thing about Avgas is it keeps. I doubt the extra bit of lead makes the exhaust any more toxic than it already is, but it’s nice of you to be thinking of your fellow riders health ? I used it in planes, can’t speak to its effectiveness in a bike, although I know there was trouble with the interaction between lead and synthetic oil. There was a big lawsuit against Mobil 1 Aviation oil over a bunch of failures. Don’t remember the details, but maybe something to look into before you put leaded gas in an engine with synthetic oil.

[Piney Woods]

These backyard homegrown "experiments" involve a lot of highly carcinogenic toxins you really don't want in your system. It ain't worth it. Like the Lady said; Just Say No!

Edited November 20, 2020 by Piney Woods

[Clutch44]

59 minutes ago, Adam Meyerson said:

For Avgas you should check with your local fuel distributor. I’ve ordered it by 55 gallon drum and had it delivered the nice thing about Avgas is it keeps. I doubt the extra bit of lead makes the exhaust any more toxic than it already is, but it’s nice of you to be thinking of your fellow riders health ? I used it in planes, can’t speak to its effectiveness in a bike, although I know there was trouble with the interaction between lead and synthetic oil. There was a big lawsuit against Mobil 1 Aviation oil over a bunch of failures. Don’t remember the details, but maybe something to look into before you put leaded gas in an engine with synthetic oil.

I put avgas in a new generator just because it keeps so well. After 3 days of running there was a ton of lead on the plastic where it exhausts, and the bricks that the exhaust was blowing onto. That made me a firm believer of using the right octane for the motor in question.

[Adam Meyerson]

16 minutes ago, Clutch44 said:

I put avgas in a new generator just because it keeps so well. After 3 days of running there was a ton of lead on the plastic where it exhausts, and the bricks that the exhaust was blowing onto. 

Think about that before you move into the flight path of a GA airport. All that lead drizzling down on you. And checklist usually tells you to set mixture full rich on approach and departure ? Can’t be good for your home grown... tomatoes ? we do complain about the quality of our modern fuel, but can you even imagine with all the new people and cars on the planet if we were still trundling around in 455 Vista Cruisers burning Ethyl? ?

Edited November 20, 2020 by Adam Meyerson

[Spud786]

I dont know for sure how much lead, is in av gas , but something like VP c12 has about 6 grams per gallon, its alot, and Im only interested in the lead or the fuel for a couple of purposes.

Mainly for upper cylinder lubrication, and decazbonization, although it does circulating through entire motor (and can be found with oil analysis ) . Lead oxides are really good in high flow areas, at decarboning, like sand blasting action, but run too much and you will have lead deposit issues. I only run a a cup or 1.5 cup per tank on average, I have ZERO black carbon in my muffler or exhaust pipe(on my ktm 500 this is near 55,000 miles of use)  , lead oxides just irradiate it.  If you calculate how much 6 grams per gallon translates into 1 cup of fuel, its fairly low, and all thats needed for that purpose,

But I have Motorcycle engines with over 115,000 mile(also a catted motor) on the low diet, that have never even had the valve cover off.   Ive also cleaned black carboned exhaust systems with a simple half a tank of vp c12 with other motors, eats that black carbon like a Pac Man.

[Clutch44]

14 minutes ago, Spud786 said:

I dont know for sure how much lead, is in av gas , but something like VP c12 has about 6 grams per gallon, its alot, and Im only interested in the lead or the fuel for a couple of purposes.

Mainly for upper cylinder lubrication, and decazbonization, although it does circulating through entire motor (and can be found with oil analysis ) . Lead oxides are really good in high flow areas, at decarboning, like sand blasting action, but run too much and you will have lead deposit issues. I only run a a cup or 1.5 cup per tank on average, I have ZERO black carbon in my muffler or exhaust pipe(on my ktm 500 this is near 55,000 miles of use)  , lead oxides just irradiate it.  If you calculate how much 6 grams per gallon translates into 1 cup of fuel, its fairly low, and all thats needed for that purpose,

But I have Motorcycle engines with over 115,000 mile(also a catted motor) on the low diet, that have never even had the valve cover off.   Ive also cleaned black carboned exhaust systems with a simple half a tank of vp c12 with other motors, eats that black carbon like a Pac Man.

Avgas is roughly 2 grams per gallon

[Randy K]

1 hour ago, Spud786 said:

I dont know for sure how much lead, is in av gas , but something like VP c12 has about 6 grams per gallon, its alot, and Im only interested in the lead or the fuel for a couple of purposes.

Mainly for upper cylinder lubrication, and decazbonization, although it does circulating through entire motor (and can be found with oil analysis ) . Lead oxides are really good in high flow areas, at decarboning, like sand blasting action, but run too much and you will have lead deposit issues. I only run a a cup or 1.5 cup per tank on average, I have ZERO black carbon in my muffler or exhaust pipe(on my ktm 500 this is near 55,000 miles of use)  , lead oxides just irradiate it.  If you calculate how much 6 grams per gallon translates into 1 cup of fuel, its fairly low, and all thats needed for that purpose,

But I have Motorcycle engines with over 115,000 mile(also a catted motor) on the low diet, that have never even had the valve cover off.   Ive also cleaned black carboned exhaust systems with a simple half a tank of vp c12 with other motors, eats that black carbon like a Pac Man.

Love the input, avgas sounds like it can have pros and cons, guessing avgas isnt too catalytic converter friendly as it could build up a little by little if run over a long time. But seems like it isnt too problematic in your bike, what bike has a cat?  What is the average price for c12 in your area?

1 hour ago, Clutch44 said:

Avgas is roughly 2 grams per gallon

Good to know and thanks for the input

Edited November 21, 2020 by Randy K

[Randy K]

2 hours ago, Adam Meyerson said:

Think about that before you move into the flight path of a GA airport. All that lead drizzling down on you. And checklist usually tells you to set mixture full rich on approach and departure ? Can’t be good for your home grown... tomatoes ? we do complain about the quality of our modern fuel, but can you even imagine with all the new people and cars on the planet if we were still trundling around in 455 Vista Cruisers burning Ethyl? ?

I have heard about the toxins falling to earth and i feel like i could not recommend avgas solely on the lead additive being really toxic to the nervous system and other bodily functions. Might try some avgas if i was riding solo to be honest