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12 minutes ago, KTMRider4Life said:

Not possible to win at so many disciplines on any other color. 

What / when was your first KTM?  Just curious.

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I've not seen anybody mentioned that can jump a bike, do a midair flip, and fire a handgun with pinpoint accuracy, hop back on and land it like the guys in that Expendables 27 movie (or was it somethng else?).  Until these guys can match that I'm just not impressed.

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1 hour ago, MANIAC998 said:

Ty Davis?

Larry Roeseler?

Dick Burelson?

 I know you mean in current times though.

I was sort of &%$#@!in with you guys, but the fact that you admitted it's pretty much true in todays world is pretty awesome. 

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1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

What / when was your first KTM?  Just curious.

1999 I bought a used 98 125sx. That motor was a damn rocket for a 125, even by todays standards. It hit HARD and pulled to the moon. My buddies rode kx125's and they felt anemic by comparison but admittedly had plusher suspension than the first year pds KTM. I just learned to ride it harder, the harder you rode it, the better it felt. 

 

Edit: added this https://motocrossactionmag.com/two-stroke-tuesday-1999-ktm-125sx-two-stroke-race-test/

Note: In 99 they rated the no link pds better than most linkage systems

Edited by KTMRider4Life
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2 hours ago, KTMRider4Life said:

1999 I bought a used 98 125sx. That motor was a damn rocket for a 125, even by todays standards. It hit HARD and pulled to the moon. My buddies rode kx125's and they felt anemic by comparison but admittedly had plusher suspension than the first year pds KTM. I just learned to ride it harder, the harder you rode it, the better it felt. 

 

Edit: added this https://motocrossactionmag.com/two-stroke-tuesday-1999-ktm-125sx-two-stroke-race-test/

Note: In 99 they rated the no link pds better than most linkage systems

KTM went from a linkage to PDS and everybody and I mean everybody knew it didn't work for whoops.  If you raced MX, KTM was a bad choice.  Besides that the broken swingarms and engine cases were Suzukiesque.  I give them all the credit in the world for a huge turnaround because they really were WAY behind for MX.  A lot of credit is given to the EU change, but I think that just empowered Pierre, the driving force was him being an enthusiast instead of a bean counter.  Sochiro Honda was that way, rumor had it he had a Maico torn apart in his house.

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21 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

KTM went from a linkage to PDS and everybody and I mean everybody knew it didn't work for whoops.  If you raced MX, KTM was a bad choice.  Besides that the broken swingarms and engine cases were Suzukiesque.  I give them all the credit in the world for a huge turnaround because they really were WAY behind for MX.  A lot of credit is given to the EU change, but I think that just empowered Pierre, the driving force was him being an enthusiast instead of a bean counter.  Sochiro Honda was that way, rumor had it he had a Maico torn apart in his house.

I never heard anything about broken swingarms or engine cases, not sure what you mean about the cases being Suzuki like, the design was certainly different.  I'm interested in your post but you'll have to unpack it a bit for me to try to understand. 

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10 hours ago, KTMRider4Life said:

I never heard anything about broken swingarms or engine cases, not sure what you mean about the cases being Suzuki like, the design was certainly different.  I'm interested in your post but you'll have to unpack it a bit for me to try to understand. 

The engine cases used to break at the kickstarter.  Swingarms would also break.  So, much like the Suzukis the bikes just didn't hold up well for MX.  Those problems are a thing of the past though, I really don't hear of any chronic problems other than things like the brake return spring or the spokes coming loose.

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4 hours ago, mxaniac said:

The engine cases used to break at the kickstarter.  Swingarms would also break.  So, much like the Suzukis the bikes just didn't hold up well for MX.  Those problems are a thing of the past though, I really don't hear of any chronic problems other than things like the brake return spring or the spokes coming loose.

Engine cases and kickstart mechanisms were a problem for KTM from early on. Probably inherited from Sachs. And those problems seemed to have stayed with them for years.

I am really happy with the quality of my new KTM so far, very well done on the mechanical and materials side. And the PDS has turned out better than I thought it would. The Indian engineers from Bajaj must have taught those Euro-blockheads how to do it right finally...:busted::ride:

 

1975 KTM with Sachs 125 eeewwww.

 

 

image.png.408aad34dfd3260f34ee422bdda7a4a5.png

image.png.e1a1e9f83c8e1810b4bfbd8f092fdd2a.png

 

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20 hours ago, KTMRider4Life said:

I never heard anything about broken swingarms or engine cases, not sure what you mean about the cases being Suzuki like, the design was certainly different.  I'm interested in your post but you'll have to unpack it a bit for me to try to understand. 

I can attest to the broken kickstart/kickstart gear syndrome  on my brand new KTM 380mxc back in 1998. Had to wait weeks just to get parts as they were on back order as it was a chronic issue. God that pissed me off! 

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around 2004  we were pitted next to Jimmy LaMastus at an AMX race and he broke at least one swing arm maybe two on his 520 KTM's....I looked at one of then and the top half of the section containing the swing arm pivot on the left side was gone.....we were considering selling our Honda 450 and getting a KTM....ended that....a few weeks later at Honey Lake his problems with the KTM's continued....glad I didn't buy one......not good years for KTM's.....today I would consider one if it weren't for the air forks

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12 hours ago, mxaniac said:

The engine cases used to break at the kickstarter.  Swingarms would also break.  So, much like the Suzukis the bikes just didn't hold up well for MX.  Those problems are a thing of the past though, I really don't hear of any chronic problems other than things like the brake return spring or the spokes coming loose.

I'll take your word for it on the swingarms I guess, but I'm going to have to completely disagree about the kickstarters. I've spent the better part of 2 decades riding and racing KTM's from the late 90's to the early 00's because of living in Ca and green sticker laws. I've owned several, and when combined with my riding partners that were riding the same bikes were talking several dozens of those model bikes. I've never seen a single failure of the kick start mechanism breaking and were talking bikes we've rebuilt many many times. 

If you say the swingarms broke because of MX jumps being harder on them than cross country racing I suppose that's possible but I'm still skeptical, never seen a single one and again, been around those bikes as much as anyone, still have one in the garage, have several buddies with them and we ride them in the summer for green sticker season. Never a failure on a swingarm. Where did they break at? 

Edited by KTMRider4Life

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2 hours ago, dirtbikesonny said:

I can attest to the broken kickstart/kickstart gear syndrome  on my brand new KTM 380mxc back in 1998. Had to wait weeks just to get parts as they were on back order as it was a chronic issue. God that pissed me off! 

 

1 hour ago, Budlite said:

around 2004  we were pitted next to Jimmy LaMastus at an AMX race and he broke at least one swing arm maybe two on his 520 KTM's....I looked at one of then and the top half of the section containing the swing arm pivot on the left side was gone.....we were considering selling our Honda 450 and getting a KTM....ended that....a few weeks later at Honey Lake his problems with the KTM's continued....glad I didn't buy one......not good years for KTM's.....today I would consider one if it weren't for the air forks

This is odd, not only like I said above spent the better part of two decades riding these bikes I've also spent that time in the forums and never noticed a trend on either of these issues. There were years where you had to pay attention to the gasket and some spacing issues to get the kickstart to return but that was actually later than what you guys are talking about.  I have no doubt it happened here and there but a wide spread problem over a number of years I just can't see it. I've been around these bikes from the beginning and for a long time and not seen the trend. 

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KTM has had its ups and downs,,,,I absolutely loved the 1977 400 but the 1979 not near as much......I bought a used 250 in the late 90's that ran good but was a clapped out bike.....felt like the frame was bent as it always steered left....its was a Honda clone......my son tested a modified 520 in the early 2000's (don't remember which year) that he loved...that's what got me looking at them as we needed a big 4 stroke for the W4SN.....if they had Showa or KYB forks I'd probably have one...you could say I'm allergic to air forks...lol

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13 hours ago, KTMRider4Life said:

I'll take your word for it on the swingarms I guess, but I'm going to have to completely disagree about the kickstarters. I've spent the better part of 2 decades riding and racing KTM's from the late 90's to the early 00's because of living in Ca and green sticker laws. I've owned several, and when combined with my riding partners that were riding the same bikes were talking several dozens of those model bikes. I've never seen a single failure of the kick start mechanism breaking and were talking bikes we've rebuilt many many times. 

If you say the swingarms broke because of MX jumps being harder on them than cross country racing I suppose that's possible but I'm still skeptical, never seen a single one and again, been around those bikes as much as anyone, still have one in the garage, have several buddies with them and we ride them in the summer for green sticker season. Never a failure on a swingarm. Where did they break at? 

I remember seeing someone with a 2003 250 up camping that I knew so we pulled over and BSd for a bit.  When we were done he went to start his bike then OH CRAP NOT AGAIN.  Broken case up by the starter, it had done it before.  It was a weak point on them, he wasn't the only one.

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On 11/23/2020 at 6:50 PM, eastreich said:

 

I think someone could do it on a Beta (and maybe a Sherco in another few years) but they don't have the cash/sponsor (aka RedBull) to get the rider on the bike that could do it.

Would be an outside chance for someone to do it on a Yamaha too, but again, that would be if the team/mfr was willing and I don't see it happening.

So  ,   ....     It's not so much the bike ,  as   ,   the rider   .....

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43 minutes ago, bweighmaster said:

So  ,   ....     It's not so much the bike ,  as   ,   the rider   .....

It is both. A rider has to have a team behind them that competes in that many different facets of off road, to which for the Japanese isn't part of their racing anymore.

KTM doesn't want their riders to compete in as many different series, thus you have GNCC guys doing Enduro back east and guys on the west coast doing WORCS and maybe GPs or NHHA. Endurocross and Hard Enduro.

If you took out the specialization, you still only have one company with teams that compete in all of those disciplines being KTM/Husky (and GasGas shortly). Beta is probably going get there shortly. Sherco is a few years behind Beta. Yamaha is the only Japanese manufacturer that I see would even consider it. But it would be a long shot. The Japanese seem pretty disinterested in Hard Enduro/Endurocross.

Taylor Robert could (would!) excel at most of those now, KTM just has him on a leash for WORCS after his bad crash at KoM. He was unbeatable in NHHA, same in WORCS, won in EX. I'm sure he would be right up there at the pointy end in GNCC and NEPG if he could race there and he would wax the field at Big6 GP.  But we will never truly know.

Beta seems to me to be a small enough team as of yet that with a little more influx of sponsorship they could field a rider that would race all that stuff. As to who? That's the question. After Taylor Robert, I'm not sure who riding now would be not only good at both coasts (and I'm saying top 3 in any event entered), but would be a championship contender in any series they set out to do, and rides for a team that is in all those different series.

 

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13 hours ago, Piney Woods said:

No, that just can't be true,,,4life said so. His experience is universal and all knowing. Really. 🤣

pfffft, 

I will tell you right now you will fail to kick tires like him.

He is the tire kicking Master of all bikes!

You are just the tire kicking Master Beta, 

 

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