Gas Gas Pricing

[lowmass]

except for the "gasgas" logo, they are wayyy better looking than the road cone variety.

I want the red one

[ah665]

13 hours ago, KTMRider4Life said:

@MotorBoatin will tell you the Yamaha's understeer, he's been preaching it for a while.

User error

[MotorBoatin]

2 hours ago, ah665 said:

User error

 

Engineering error

Follow the link:

https://www.google.com/search?q=yz250+understeer&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS726US726&oq=&aqs=chrome.0.69i59i450l8.178015j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by MotorBoatin

[ah665]

12 minutes ago, MotorBoatin said:

 

Engineering error

Follow the link:

https://www.google.com/search?q=yz250+understeer&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS726US726&oq=&aqs=chrome.0.69i59i450l8.178015j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

 

So I followed the link and it took me to this article from MXA. I will copy and paste for you:

Q: HOW DOES THE YZ250 HANDLE?

A: In the rarified air of motorcycle testing, there are bikes that understeer, bikes that oversteer, and bikes that feel like they have a hinge in the middle. Perfection in handling is probably impossible to achieve on a motocross bike, because we ask it to do too many varied tasks during the course of a single lap of a motocross track.

How would we describe the 2009 Yamaha YZ250? It is a stable platform machine. What does that mean? It doesn’t do anything exceptionally well, but it doesn’t do anything poorly either. It is, in the words of most MXA test riders, “neutral.” It is accurate at turn-in, and it requires almost no mid-turn corrections from center-out to exit. It isn’t the sharpest-turning tool in the moto shed, nor does it plow like it’s being pulled by an old Army mule. Its chassis doesn’t impose its will on the bike’s arc at any time. It is putty in the hands of a good rider. It is just enough of everything to make it a complaint-free package.

 

So like I said previously, user error on your end. Sorry, bud. Truth hurts.

[MotorBoatin]

28 minutes ago, ah665 said:

So I followed the link and it took me to this article from MXA. I will copy and paste for you:

Q: HOW DOES THE YZ250 HANDLE?

A: In the rarified air of motorcycle testing, there are bikes that understeer, bikes that oversteer, and bikes that feel like they have a hinge in the middle. Perfection in handling is probably impossible to achieve on a motocross bike, because we ask it to do too many varied tasks during the course of a single lap of a motocross track.

How would we describe the 2009 Yamaha YZ250? It is a stable platform machine. What does that mean? It doesn’t do anything exceptionally well, but it doesn’t do anything poorly either. It is, in the words of most MXA test riders, “neutral.” It is accurate at turn-in, and it requires almost no mid-turn corrections from center-out to exit. It isn’t the sharpest-turning tool in the moto shed, nor does it plow like it’s being pulled by an old Army mule. Its chassis doesn’t impose its will on the bike’s arc at any time. It is putty in the hands of a good rider. It is just enough of everything to make it a complaint-free package.

 

So like I said previously, user error on your end. Sorry, bud. Truth hurts.

Let me cheery pick as well. Quotes from real people in the links on the first page of my search

With the other set up I felt as If the bike wanted to stand up opposite way I was turning. By that I mean had horrible understeer. Couldn’t track an inside line bike would fade tonthe outside no matter how hard I fought her.

Also ran sag at 98mm, 100mm, 105mm. 100mm seems to work best, but cornering still sucks...

 

 

And here is a quote from your exalted MXA staffers on the 2018 YZ250

Q: WHAT DO WE THINK ABOUT THE YZ250 CHASSIS?

A: To sum it up in one word, outdated. Don’t get us wrong; it does many things well and some things great, but the front end is shaky at speed and there has always been a touch of understeer in the aging frame. The KTM and Husky don’t have any handling issues; in fact, they are almost flawless. Luckily, you can Band-Aid the YZ250’s handling ailments by lowering the sag to 105mm, raising the forks into the clamps another 5mm, tightening up on the steering stem (to make a poor man’s steering damper) and throwing away the front Dunlop MX52 for a better front sneaker (like an MX3S).

 

 

 

Face it your bike is designed to understeer. Some people like a bike that walks out of ruts and pushes to the outside of flat corners. Others don't and consider it a design flaw 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by MotorBoatin

[ah665]

A touch of understeer hardly presents a problem. No one ever accused the YZs of being the sharpest cornering bikes made. They are the definition of neutral handlers, with a balance of cornering and stability. Just because they don't corner as sharp as others doesn't mean they understeer to the point of an issue. Granted, when I got my '14 250F I thought the handling was bad, as I felt a push. But after working on suspension settings the bike went from me disliking it to 1 of my favorite bikes. The 2strokes have never been an issue, which is what I thought we were talking about. I had an 02 RM125 and an 05 YZ125, in 2005. Of course the RM corners sharper, but it has it's drawbacks. If you can't settle an 05+ into a rut or make that bike corner inside, it's on you. You don't have to like it, but there is not an inherent problem with the chassis or engineering of those bikes. 

[MotorBoatin]

14 minutes ago, ah665 said:

A touch of understeer hardly presents a problem. 

For you

I find it extremely annoying and the worst trait a bike could have. Unlike harsh suspension or an anemic engine you can't fix it. Yamaha MX bikes have had the same issue since I started racing back in 85. The engineers obviously like it and so do all the blue diehards

 

My KTM is just as stable as my last two YZs but it corners better and has zero understeer. My last Suzuki killed it in the corners and shook on fast straights but I'd take that any day over a bike that pushes in the corners. I haven't owned a Honda since the 90s but they all handled better than a Yamaha  

Edited December 4, 2020 by MotorBoatin

[MANIAC998]

10 minutes ago, MotorBoatin said:

For you

I find it extremely annoying and the worst trait a bike could have. Unlike harsh suspension or an anemic engine you can't fix it. Yamaha MX bikes have had the same issue since I started racing back in 85. The engineers obviously like it and so do all the blue diehards

 

My KTM is just as stable as my last two YZs but it corners better and has zero understeer. My last Suzuki killed it in the corners and shook on fast straights but I'd take that any day over a bike that pushes in the corners  

For you!!!

Just because it annoys you, doesn't make it an engineering problem or a chassis issue.

[MotorBoatin]

1 minute ago, MANIAC998 said:

For you!!!

Just because it annoys you, doesn't make it an engineering problem or a chassis issue.

Didn't I just say the Yamaha engineers and customers like it? 

 

[MANIAC998]

 

1 hour ago, MotorBoatin said:

 

Engineering error

Follow the link:

https://www.google.com/search?q=yz250+understeer&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS726US726&oq=&aqs=chrome.0.69i59i450l8.178015j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

 

Yes, but this also was said by you.

Edited December 4, 2020 by MANIAC998

[MotorBoatin]

5 minutes ago, MANIAC998 said:

Yes, and also said that it is a known

Yes, but this also was said by you.

I can't help it that Yamaha hires incompetent engineers

The Yamaha engineering dept should buy a green and orange bike and get their rulers out. Both have stable chassis with no understeer 

Edited December 4, 2020 by MotorBoatin

[MANIAC998]

1 minute ago, MotorBoatin said:

I can't help it that Yamaha hires incompetent engineers

The Yamaha engineering dept should buy a green and orange bike and get their rulers out. Both have stable chassis with no understeer 

Engineering Error implies some type of mistake or oversight, sometimes to the point of catastrophe. And the Yamaha just doesn't steer the way you want it too? Seems more plausible that ah665 has a more accurate description of the actual cause.

[MotorBoatin]

1 minute ago, MANIAC998 said:

Engineering Error implies some type of mistake or oversight, sometimes to the point of catastrophe. And the Yamaha just doesn't steer the way you want it too? Seems more plausible that ah665 has a more accurate description of the actual cause.

So the fact that countless professional bike testers point out the blue bikes understeer and magazines have been trying to fix it since the 80's means nothing? They all don't know how to ride? 

Like I said some people like it. I think they are crazy but to each their own   

[MANIAC998]

Every Professional team out there, tries linkages, Triple clamps, motor mounts, off-set bearing races, swingarm changes, etc, etc, for what????

To fix a problem??? I think not.

[MotorBoatin]

8 minutes ago, MANIAC998 said:

Every Professional team out there, tries linkages, Triple clamps, motor mounts, off-set bearing races, swingarm changes, etc, etc, for what????

To fix a problem??? I think not.

For the YZ450 that is exactly what they are doing 

[MANIAC998]

1 minute ago, MotorBoatin said:

For the YZ450 that is exactly what they are doing 

But not the Kawasaki?

Or the Suzuki?

Or the Honda?

Or the KTM?

Or the Husqvarna?

Or the GasGas?

[MotorBoatin]

11 minutes ago, MANIAC998 said:

But not the Kawasaki?

Or the Suzuki?

Or the Honda?

Or the KTM?

Or the Husqvarna?

Or the GasGas?

No, they are tailoring the bike for each individual rider

On the other hand the YZ450 has been a lost cause since 2010 and hasn't been fixed yet. Don't take my word for it ask Reed, Stewart, Webb, Plessinger, Hill and Ferrandis

Now that JGR is bankrupt I bet you could get an honest opinion out of them as well 

Edited December 4, 2020 by MotorBoatin

[MANIAC998]

2 minutes ago, MotorBoatin said:

No, they are tailoring the bike for each individual rider

I believe it's more along the lines of fixing that brands deficiencies or engineering errors if you will.

[MotorBoatin]

Just now, MANIAC998 said:

I believe it's more along the lines of fixing that brands deficiencies or engineering errors if you will.

 

[mxaniac]

Development teams have a limited budget and must make compromises.  Honda is famous for releasing bikes with poor valving and mapping.  Suzuki has had many reliability problems.  Yamaha tends to get their valving really good straight from the factory, which means they put resources behind it.  Resources that didn't get used somewhere else.  Telemetry data on the chassis would be my guess.