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ckny

Low hour TPi top end failures

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I’ve had 2 friends over the past week have top end failures on relatively low hour machines. Stock bikes, both used for tight technical riding. Almost no WOT riding. 
Both under 60 hours. 
Both 2020 machines. 
TE300 and 300XCW.

Both started fouling plugs before they seized and in general worked like shit. 
Symptoms were similar. 

Fouled a plug and burning insane amounts of fuel as well as the bike felt “loaded up” and very rich and once you got on it 1/2 throttle it would act stupid and clear up

What’s going on with these bikes?

I’m Around 30 hours so far no issues. 

300XCW

E5CB025B-3239-43A8-AF07-DCA71A201F37.jpeg

51C45694-2EA7-479E-9AAD-6532C5DB3221.jpeg
 

TE300. Pump was tested and is working. 

652CF0D6-F7C9-4739-984E-74D7BE175168.jpeg

69F39F5C-1BEA-4A65-8B05-F1178D029E31.jpeg

74B550BA-36E4-41CD-A918-D39832DFB2E1.jpeg

Edited by ckny
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3 minutes ago, highmarker said:

We're the crank bearing wells dry ?

No idea, how would they know that? 

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7 minutes ago, SlowDinoDog said:

Sounds like a brain fart, to me. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Bikes were running poorly, rode them anyway, ...and it seized?🏆🏆🏆

Bikes run poorly for a magnitude of reasons. That does not mean the bike is going to seize. 
These bikes have a little history of fouling plugs, running poorly when cold, sensor issues etc. 

Edited by ckny
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An overly rich condition caused by a bad sensor or a leaky fuel injector would inevitably cause a seizure. Dump enough fuel into combustion chamber to wash oil off walls and scrunch! Probably should have investigated before it got that far.  

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17 minutes ago, willie said:

Dump enough fuel into combustion chamber to wash oil off walls and scrunch!

and it should die from being too rich.

Same thing would happen to a rich 4t if that were the case

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19 minutes ago, willie said:

An overly rich condition caused by a bad sensor or a leaky fuel injector would inevitably cause a seizure. Dump enough fuel into combustion chamber to wash oil off walls and scrunch! Probably should have investigated before it got that far.  

It’s happening to a lot of bikes it seems. Those are just two guys I ride with, reading about quite a few low hour failures similar to these. 

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1 hour ago, ckny said:

It’s happening to a lot of bikes it seems. Those are just two guys I ride with, reading about quite a few low hour failures similar to these. 

Is it happening during cold weather?

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6 minutes ago, willie said:

Is it happening during cold weather?

I wouldn’t say cold weather, it all relative to where you live. Those guys have been riding lately between 10 to 15 deg Cel. Temps are starting to drop more now. They live on the coast and I’m 5 hours away inland where it’s both hotter and colder. Lowest temps I’ve seen this season were 4 to 5 Cel a couple weeks ago. 

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5 minutes ago, ckny said:

I wouldn’t say cold weather, it all relative to where you live. Those guys have been riding lately between 10 to 15 deg Cel. Temps are starting to drop more now. They live on the coast and I’m 5 hours away inland where it’s both hotter and colder. Lowest temps I’ve seen this season were 4 to 5 Cel a couple weeks ago. 

Just wondering if there was any correlation between running rich and lower ambient temperatures or is it just random. We have had a couple of -10 mornings here in Cumberland County.

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25 minutes ago, willie said:

Just wondering if there was any correlation between running rich and lower ambient temperatures or is it just random. We have had a couple of -10 mornings here in Cumberland County.

I wonder if it adds extra oil when the cold enrichment is being used.

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28 minutes ago, DEATH_INC. said:

I wonder if it adds extra oil when the cold enrichment is being used.

You mean the cold start knob? 

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58 minutes ago, willie said:

Just wondering if there was any correlation between running rich and lower ambient temperatures or is it just random. We have had a couple of -10 mornings here in Cumberland County.

I’m not sure about that. My buddy ran his TPi last winter studded. He did not notice any issues. I don’t anymore as we get too much snow where I live. Quite a few guys are gonna run their TPi’s studded this winter. Me personally I don’t like to ride in anything under -5 deg. 

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Just now, ckny said:

You mean the cold start knob? 

The ecu will richen the mixture as the engine and air temps get cooler. I'm actually not sure what the cold start knob does on one of those, but every efi system I've seen just uses it to open an air bleed or open the throttle a little, with the ecu actually doing the enrichening.

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5 minutes ago, ckny said:

I’m not sure about that. My buddy ran his TPi last winter studded. He did not notice any issues. I don’t anymore as we get too much snow where I live. Quite a few guys are gonna run their TPi’s studded this winter. Me personally I don’t like to ride in anything under -5 deg. 

I'm guessing.

All I can think is the low throttle openings in cold whether could allow the engine to cool enough to drop it into the cold enrichment zone. It probably wouldn't be an issue with a heavier throttle hand.

Just something to consider in the search to figure this out.

Edited by DEATH_INC.
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What type/brand of 2-stroke oil was being used?  The scoring looks like signs of cold seizing so maybe not letting the bikes get to temperature?

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I think it was two things:

1) the electronically controlled jetting went from rich at low throttle settings to lean at high throttle settings

2) the oil injector couldnt pump enough oil at high throttle settings due to using a non-injector oil or some other finicky reason

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