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sirthumpalot

High dollar helmets worth it?

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I took a pretty good digger in a 6d helmet. I was able to take it back for an inspection. I had foam dented in places I didn't even know I hit my head. 6d was able to replace the liner so my helmet was as good as new minus cosmetics. That's a service you won't get in a cheap helmet. 

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When I had a large amount of disposable income I had Aria and  Shoei both were nice.  Now being relatively poorer and money has more value I’m in the $200 range and heresy of heresy I find non US approved Caberg’s  offer features and fit. Any one want to move onto the oil choices?  I personally like Shell RotellaT6.

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16 hours ago, yz250f 78 said:

The people over at Airoh seem to make the lightest helmet.  Your 6d helmet, Zach bell debuted it in supercross, crashed and knocked himself out. Why would anyone go out to buy the 6d?  Because all the bells and whistles? That’s how they get u to buy bro!

This is the most flawed logic I’ve read on anything. No need to wear seatbelts in cars, because people still die wearing them, right?  

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On 1/11/2021 at 5:53 PM, sirthumpalot said:

I'm hoping someone has already done the homework, but can anyone comment as to whether the more expensive helmets (more than $200-ish) tend to protect better than the more budget $100-$200 range helmets?  Some of them get up close to $1000, but which models actually have the best protection, ignoring the price? 

You may as well start an oil thread.

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20 hours ago, eastreich said:

So you have no idea just how heavy a football helmet is.  You do understand if a helmet is too light it may not be able to properly absorb and disperse impact across the shell to a wider area.  Right, you don't.  Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.

It CAN BE a matter of how much tech and money you spend.  A cheap non-forgiving thermoplastic shell and single density EPS layer in a sub $200 helmet will give you a concussion with the same hit that sends almost negligible energy to your skull that a high end composite shell, multi-density EPS, MIPS/Gel helmet would.  The cheap helmet transferred the forces to your brain, the expensive helmet sacrificed itself so those forces didn't go to your brain.

Consider that the guys at 6D have been part of the research team that the NFL put together a few years ago to help develop the helmets that are just coming out now for players to use.

So, the people at the forefront of football helmet studies are looking to incorporate motorcycle helmet technology to improve concussion safety.

https://www.6dhelmets.com/tag/football/

I would tell you to quit while you were ahead, but you already started miles behind the discussion.

There are a lot of smart people in the industry That have the opinion that lighter, smaller shelled helmets with ECE ratings are very safe for offroad motorcycles and the direction we should be taking.. Not taking anything away from MIPS, Fly Formula, Kali or 6D because the tech is great. You couldn’t pay me to wear something huge and heavy like Arai.

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2 minutes ago, ckny said:

There are a lot of smart people in the industry That have the opinion that lighter, smaller shelled helmets with ECE ratings are very safe for offroad motorcycles and the direction we should be taking.. Not taking anything away from MIPS, Fly Formula, Kali or 6D because the tech is great. You couldn’t pay me to wear something huge and heavy like Arai.

You do understand that Arai and Shoei only tag helmets for the certificates of the market they are in, don't you?  In the US, the "VX-Pro4" and "VFX-EVO" are listed to meet DOT/Snell because those are the certifications used in this market.  In Europe, the "MX-V" and "VFX-WR" are certified to meet ECE 22.05.

If the US required ECE spec, an Arai or Shoei helmet sold here would pass the required ECE certification and have it listed on the helmet, but it is not, so they don't.

As someone who sold helmets for a few years, primarily to ATV riders, I would never pay anyone to wear a helmet they weren't comfortable with.  To start with, all I want someone to do is wear a helmet.  Doesn't matter if it is a $60 G-Max or a $1700 AGV Pista GP RR Rossi.  After that, I want someone to wear the helmet they are the most comfortable wearing while understanding how the helmet should fit, because if it isn't comfortable or you don't understand that you should have a small bit of pressure on your cheeks and the helmet should not rattle around on your melon, you won't wear it.  And then I want to make sure a user knows how to buckle it up!  Doesn't matter what kind of certifications a helmet has if you don't have it on your head or buckle it up.  And I don't know if you notice or not, but I see a LOT of people trail riding (not so much at a track) with the straps just flapping in the breeze because they didn't buckle their brain bucket.

 

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2 hours ago, eastreich said:

You do understand that Arai and Shoei only tag helmets for the certificates of the market they are in, don't you?  In the US, the "VX-Pro4" and "VFX-EVO" are listed to meet DOT/Snell because those are the certifications used in this market.  In Europe, the "MX-V" and "VFX-WR" are certified to meet ECE 22.05.

If the US required ECE spec, an Arai or Shoei helmet sold here would pass the required ECE certification and have it listed on the helmet, but it is not, so they don't.

As someone who sold helmets for a few years, primarily to ATV riders, I would never pay anyone to wear a helmet they weren't comfortable with.  To start with, all I want someone to do is wear a helmet.  Doesn't matter if it is a $60 G-Max or a $1700 AGV Pista GP RR Rossi.  After that, I want someone to wear the helmet they are the most comfortable wearing while understanding how the helmet should fit, because if it isn't comfortable or you don't understand that you should have a small bit of pressure on your cheeks and the helmet should not rattle around on your melon, you won't wear it.  And then I want to make sure a user knows how to buckle it up!  Doesn't matter what kind of certifications a helmet has if you don't have it on your head or buckle it up.  And I don't know if you notice or not, but I see a LOT of people trail riding (not so much at a track) with the straps just flapping in the breeze because they didn't buckle their brain bucket.

 

Yes I am very well aware. Quite often the structure of the helmet is modified depending on the rating and certification. That being said, I personally would rather wear an ECE rated helmet than a Snell cert helmet. 
I along with many others, as I said earlier believe ECE is better for offroad.

 

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For a while I would say you get all the protection you need up to around the $200 mark, then the rest was comfort and style, but there are more innovations now like MIPS that offer more protection for rotational forces and multiple impacts. 

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Just now, ckny said:

Yes I am very well aware. Quite often the structure of the helmet is modified depending on the rating and certification. That being said, I personally would rather wear an ECE rated helmet than a Snell cert helmet. 
I along with many others, as I said earlier believe ECE is better for offroad.

 

I want a mixture of everything.

ECE theoretically isn't as good at high speeds/impacts.  Snell theoretically isn't as good at lower speeds.  DOT is simply an antiquated standard (I am pretty sure we can all agree on that).

Same reason in another thread on here where you say a 250F is the ideal bike for everyone.  For me a 250F is pretty much useless.  EVERYONE has a different use case, and to try to say one standard is unequivocally better than another in a blanket statement is false advertising.

Your definition of off road isn't mine, unless we are simply talking about NOT riding on tarmac.  What you find enjoyable for off road riding speeds and obstacles is NOT everyone else's.

This isn't all about one or the other.  That is what all of you are failing to realize.  Pick what you want, and pick appropriate to your own personal situation, but I would much rather have a lid on my head that can meet ALL of them.  Helmet manufacturers HAVE to meet either ECE or DOT to sell in their respective markets.  No manufacturer has to have a Snell certification, and they have to pay to get one.  Is that good or bad?  I can see the merits to both arguments.

The first ECE lids out couldn't meet DOT at the same time, and now some of the newer helmets are meeting both.  In a very short amount of time, there will be lids out there meeting ECE 22.05/6, DOT, and Snell 2020.  But I still won't wear one of them if they don't fit my head right!

In the end, I am NOT saying that ECE 22.05/6 is bad (it is great), or that Snell 2020 is the shiznit (far from it).  Everyone should be aware of what the different certifications test to, and smartly apply that knowledge to compare it to how they primarily use the helmet/ride, or how they primarily crash (if you really can do such a thing) and make an EDUCATED decision for YOUR PERSONAL SITUATION and out of those decisions then pick the best helmet that fits your head within your budget.  If that means a $650 Kilm F5 Koroyd ECE/DOT lid, a closeout $500 Shoei VFX-EVO Snell/DOT, or even a $70 MSR SC1 ECE/DOT and you feel safe with it on your head and will wear it, then go for it.

Yes, I currently wear an Arai VX-Pro4 because when I have been buying helmets that is the helmet that best fits my head and has the certifications that I feel fits my needs the best and am comfortable with.  I have never had a concussion in one, despite trying lots of times.  I have crashed in many lids (Fox, Klim, HJC, and One to name a few) and done damage to my head.  I have a very nice Fly Formula carbon that doesn't fit my head well, no matter what combination of liners and pads I put in it so I don't wear it.

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8 hours ago, 69fastback said:

This is the most flawed logic I’ve read on anything. No need to wear seatbelts in cars, because people still die wearing them, right?  

Facts!

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On 1/13/2021 at 8:43 AM, yz250f 78 said:

Wow!   A hit to a head is a hit to a head wether it’s the ground or another helmet.  

The fastest NFL guys do about 22mph, so even if they ran head on into each other, that's still 44mph max. What's that, like 3rd gear?

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And I remember when we used to put our helmets on our headlights to keep from busting the lens. Lol . Now I buy the best I can afford. Shoei X2 fits me best and I want a Neotec modular but I can’t see $700. Maybe when my X2 she’s out. Adventure Rider just posted an article on helmets vs no helmets. It seem you have a 3 to 1 better chance wearing a helmet. Everyone has to make the best decision they can. It’s not my concern either way. 

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I’ve been saved by my various 6D helmets on several occasions! Your life isn’t worth a cheap helmet. I personally think 6D is the best. Don’t cheap out on helmets or boots. That’s my motto. 

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On 1/11/2021 at 12:07 PM, Bigfatredpig said:

The problem with this question is people will endlessly defend buying a cheap helmet, just like the guys who buy expensive helmets, they will justify their decision to spend more money. 
 

Yeah.. but that’s kind of expected. Everyone has a variety of opinions, How about those riding with bicycle helmets. There’s a bunch doing that too. 

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My Dad told me this once. Drive with your window  down in your car going 25 mph and hold a helmet by the straps and let the helmet hit a telephone pole. 
 

I mean realistically what’s the difference in protection from a 150 buck helmet and one that’s $550??? 
 

Buy whatever helmet you like to me. But wake up. A type of helmet isn’t going to make much difference in a hard crash. It’s just better to have a helmet on. 

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I have the Bell mx9 with mips but then I came across this Scorpion. Being able lift up the chin bar and built in sun visor was a game changer for me and it has definitely become my goto helmet. This helmet is snell certified. HJC and Shoei helmets are also Snell certified.  Made in China,  great value. 

Snell Certified Helmets

The Snell Memorial Foundation is an independent motorcycle and car helmet testing regime, committed to improving crash helmet protection. Manufacturers have to submit their DOT certified helmets to Snell and pay for the testing – which I guess is partly why not many helmets get Snell Certified. Where a helmet’s been Snell tested & certified, we’ll put the review on these pages so you can quickly find your next Snell helmet.

 

Screenshot_20210113-202055_Chrome.jpg

Screenshot_20210113-202038_Chrome.jpg

Edited by Beamer1001

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1 hour ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Buy whatever helmet you like to me. But wake up. A type of helmet isn’t going to make much difference in a hard crash. It’s just better to have a helmet on. 

That's a big part of why I think the way I do. The difference between impacts that will kill you from any helmet that does it's job is fairly small, from worst to best, after all you only have an inch or so to try to control the deceleration of your skull, unless you want a bobble head helmet, so you can only slow it down so quickly.

But I won't include the cheapies in here (why I said does it's job), we all know where they come from, and we all know any standards on them are a gamble.

1 hour ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

How about those riding with bicycle helmets. There’s a bunch doing that too. 

I'm not sure on this one, a MTB helmet has to take pretty much the same forces as your dirt bike helmet, unless the bike lands on your head. Some of those downhill boys (and girls) get up to some pretty good pace. You only have to watch youtube to see the sort of crashes they have, some of them are as hard as anything I've seen in MX. A quick look at the interwebs (and when has that ever set us wrong?) shows the pros reach 140-150 kph, so definitely in the same area as trail riding.

I'm still not going to try one Myself though.

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34 minutes ago, DEATH_INC. said:

That's a big part of why I think the way I do. The difference between impacts that will kill you from any helmet that does it's job is fairly small, from worst to best, after all you only have an inch or so to try to control the deceleration of your skull, unless you want a bobble head helmet, so you can only slow it down so quickly.

But I won't include the cheapies in here (why I said does it's job), we all know where they come from, and we all know any standards on them are a gamble.

I'm not sure on this one, a MTB helmet has to take pretty much the same forces as your dirt bike helmet, unless the bike lands on your head. Some of those downhill boys (and girls) get up to some pretty good pace. You only have to watch youtube to see the sort of crashes they have, some of them are as hard as anything I've seen in MX. A quick look at the interwebs (and when has that ever set us wrong?) shows the pros reach 140-150 kph, so definitely in the same area as trail riding.

I'm still not going to try one Myself though.

I have ridden and raced with a DHMB helmet for a couple years. I spent a considerable amount of time researching the differences between the a dirtbike specific helmet and a DHMB helmet. DHMB helmets meet identical safety standards as their MX counterparts 'if' you get one with the same technology features such as MIPS (which I run).

The advantages of a DHMB are IMO better though. They are physically smaller, cool considerably better, lighter and offer better vision. Because of those advantages, it's a better helmet in hot weather, it's a lighter helmet causing less neck fatigue, and allows for a wider range of peripheral vision.

The biggest disadvantage(s) I've found are that it's louder and because the visor does sit higher it does have a tendency to snag on branches easier. 

I have a Airoh, Arai, Suomy, Just 1 and now my 100% Aircraft. I retire my helmets after a few years. The Just 1 is the only helmet I knocked myself out in (and the only time I have ever knocked myself out). It was less then 30secs into a race, tried a pass and hit a stump in the grass and went down. According to witnesses I laid on the ground out cold for 45-50secs. 

IMG_20210113_184419.jpg

Edited by Hans Schmid
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10 hours ago, Big bob42 said:

I have a helmet that came with a chinese go kart. I've crashed 40 plus times no issues. Just buy a cheap fox one

Might want to get a higher-end helmet before you regret it. Those "40+" crashes probably weren't very hard, otherwise the thing would've caved in already..

 

I wouldn't buy a helmet without MIPS, let alone without a DOT certification. A helmet without a DOT (or similar certification) sticker on it is about as good at protecting you as a Barbie bicycle helmet...

What brand helmet do you have anyway? Picture?

Edited by lil_squid

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