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sirthumpalot

High dollar helmets worth it?

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Watched the aftermath of a friend of mine break the back of his helmet into pcs. He was out for minutes, then did the horrible groaning retard noises(no offence, best descriptor I could think of). I initially thought he was dead. He was wearing a cheaper 5 plus year old helmet.  Bad concussion, memory loss etc, moody.

I was wearing an HJC in the same incident, cracked the chin bar area but no concussion or anything for me. I replaced it with a Leatt 3.5. I am looking to upgrade this spring but unsure what to get. 
Heck I would fork out the few hundred extra for a better helmet if it would reduce the end result by as little as 10 percent. 

Edited by Coccyx
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2 hours ago, Coccyx said:

Heck I would fork out the few hundred extra for a better helmet if it would reduce the end result by as little as 10 percent. 

This is exactly the debate, does the extra $5-800 buy you a 10% difference, or is it only 1-2%? Or nothing? Or is it 20%?

I don't believe it does, from an intermediate grade helmet anyway.

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8 hours ago, DEATH_INC. said:

The fastest NFL guys do about 22mph, so even if they ran head on into each other, that's still 44mph max. What's that, like 3rd gear?

2 people head on at 22 mph each is the same as 22 and 0.

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16 minutes ago, crow11 said:

2 people head on at 22 mph each is the same as 22 and 0.

Ah yes, well the same as hitting a wall at 22 anyhow. Forgot about that. The differences between impact force and closing speed. That makes a football helmet even more useless.

Well spotted. thumbsup.gif.41a429f956cf19bbf34d894b1fa4b66c.gif

Edited by DEATH_INC.

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16 hours ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

My Dad told me this once. Drive with your window  down in your car going 25 mph and hold a helmet by the straps and let the helmet hit a telephone pole. 
 

I mean realistically what’s the difference in protection from a 150 buck helmet and one that’s $550??? 
 

Buy whatever helmet you like to me. But wake up. A type of helmet isn’t going to make much difference in a hard crash. It’s just better to have a helmet on. 

That's just not factually correct.  With a helmet a given impact might result in 450g while with another helmet the exact same impact will only result in 250g.  Huge difference, they are by no means all the same.  Many trade-offs exist such as padding vs diameter or shell harness making it difficult to have a helmet be the best for all circumstances.

Having read through many of the test results, having some knowledge of the physics due to being an engineer, and having researched the topic when my kids were younger and racing, I've come to the conclusion the 6D is by far the best choice for dirt bikes.  You may disagree and can argue that point, but you can not say that are all about the same because a plethora of test results indicate differently.

I will also say this about the brands and costs.  One of the things I noticed from reading a bazillion test reports is that the expensive brands are fairly consistent between models and sizes.  The lower cost helmets and especially the Chinese tennis racket/helmet makers are all over the map.  A helmet may do well in 1 shell size or 1 model may perform well but other products by them are horrible.  Unfortunately I don't think you can find the test reports online anymore.  Marketing departments don't like facts.

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I have the Bell mx9 with mips but then I came across this Scorpion. Being able lift up the chin bar and built in sun visor was a game changer for me and it has definitely become my goto helmet. This helmet is snell certified. HJC and Shoei helmets are also Snell certified.  Made in China,  great value, great helmet, don't pay any attention to people attacking this Chinese product. 

Snell Certified Helmets

The Snell Memorial Foundation is an independent motorcycle and car helmet testing regime, committed to improving crash helmet protection. Manufacturers have to submit their DOT certified helmets to Snell and pay for the testing – which I guess is partly why not many helmets get Snell Certified. Where a helmet’s been Snell tested & certified, we’ll put the review on these pages so you can quickly find your next Snell helmet.

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I get the cheap O’Neal helmets ...they seem to last ...and i’ve been in a couple high impact I’m almost dead situation’s. Being hit by Utv ...my O’Neal held up 

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On 1/11/2021 at 3:53 PM, sirthumpalot said:

I'm hoping someone has already done the homework, but can anyone comment as to whether the more expensive helmets (more than $200-ish) tend to protect better than the more budget $100-$200 range helmets?  Some of them get up close to $1000, but which models actually have the best protection, ignoring the price? 

Just get one that is dot approved or ECE R22-05. I spent $120 on a fox helmet and my buddy has one that was $450 and mine fits me better and breathes better.  Can’t really tell if either one would protect me any better. I’m happy with cheap.

A152BE45-6564-40C2-AD45-83C5F380F8F6.jpeg

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Edited by Jason Pearson

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On 1/11/2021 at 1:53 PM, sirthumpalot said:

I'm hoping someone has already done the homework, but can anyone comment as to whether the more expensive helmets (more than $200-ish) tend to protect better than the more budget $100-$200 range helmets?  Some of them get up close to $1000, but which models actually have the best protection, ignoring the price? 

The way i look at this is if you have money go for safety before mods if your tight on budget go for a good known helmet and if your like me with no money for a used 50-80 helmet just wash it out and tada. 

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11 hours ago, mxaniac said:

That's just not factually correct.  With a helmet a given impact might result in 450g while with another helmet the exact same impact will only result in 250g.  Huge difference, they are by no means all the same.  Many trade-offs exist such as padding vs diameter or shell harness making it difficult to have a helmet be the best for all circumstances.

Having read through many of the test results, having some knowledge of the physics due to being an engineer, and having researched the topic when my kids were younger and racing, I've come to the conclusion the 6D is by far the best choice for dirt bikes.  You may disagree and can argue that point, but you can not say that are all about the same because a plethora of test results indicate differently.

I will also say this about the brands and costs.  One of the things I noticed from reading a bazillion test reports is that the expensive brands are fairly consistent between models and sizes.  The lower cost helmets and especially the Chinese tennis racket/helmet makers are all over the map.  A helmet may do well in 1 shell size or 1 model may perform well but other products by them are horrible.  Unfortunately I don't think you can find the test reports online anymore.  Marketing departments don't like facts.

Oh man, now you’ve gone and done it. HDR doesn’t speak in facts. Now you’re going to get what should be 13 paragraphs, but is written in one large paragraph, of why your facts are wrong. 

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11 hours ago, Beamer1001 said:

I have the Bell mx9 with mips but then I came across this Scorpion.  Exo AT950. Being able lift up the chin bar and built in sun visor was a game changer for me and it has definitely become my goto helmet. This helmet is snell certified. HJC and Shoei helmets are also Snell certified.  Made in China,  great value, great helmet, don't pay any attention to people attacking this Chinese product. 

Snell Certified Helmets

The Snell Memorial Foundation is an independent motorcycle and car helmet testing regime, committed to improving crash helmet protection. Manufacturers have to submit their DOT certified helmets to Snell and pay for the testing – which I guess is partly why not many helmets get Snell Certified. Where a helmet’s been Snell tested & certified, we’ll put the review on these pages so you can quickly find your next Snell helmet.

SNELL doesn't certify any modular helmets and the place I bought mine from had listed it as SNELL certified,  my bad,  smfh. Just found that out from the SNELL website. There are several Scorpion Exo helmets,  non-modular,  that are certified. 

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Thanks a lot guys you all just sent me down the helmet rabbit hole for the last hour ..lol. I'm even more confused then ever . Anyone here use the LS2 helmets ? 

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34 minutes ago, 510KTM said:

Thanks a lot guys you all just sent me down the helmet rabbit hole for the last hour ..lol. I'm even more confused then ever . Anyone here use the LS2 helmets ? 

I bought an LS2 for on road use. Only $120 cdn. on sale.

DOT, ECE rated. Super comfortable. Not too heavy. Has built in Sun visor. Nice venting. One handed quick release for the strap.

Seems to be a quality helmet....as in I feel confident that it will protect me as designed.

Haven't tried a dirt oriented LS2 though.

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I don't believe there is a direct correlation between price and protection.  Here's are my thoughts...

I'd avoid all the very cheap no-name brands even if they are certified.  I just don't put it past the Chinese not to cut corners in manufacturing after the testing or even fake certifications if they don't have a Western company managing the engineering, quality control, etc.

Personally I believe a name brand inexpensive certified helmet without any extra safety features (MIPS, etc) will probably protect just as well as a more expensive name brand helmet without any additional safety features (MIPS, etc).   Although you may get some additional features with the more expensive helmet  such as lighter weight, better venting, more comfortable materials, etc.

Helmets with additional safety features such as MIPS, Eject, cheek pads that can be removed with the helmet on in case of neck trauma, etc will probably offer better protection than a less expensive helmet without these features.

When looking at two certified name brand helmets with extra safety features (MIPS, etc) they probably protect equally.  The more expensive of the two may get you some additional features  like lighter weight, better venting, more comfortable materials., etc.

So personally, I believe once you are in the realm of name brand certified helmets, the only time paying more money equates to additional safety is when you step up from helmets without additional safety features (MIPS, eject, etc) to a helmet with addition safety features (MIPS eject, etc).   

Doc

Edited by Doc_d
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On 1/14/2021 at 11:57 AM, mxaniac said:

That's just not factually correct.  With a helmet a given impact might result in 450g while with another helmet the exact same impact will only result in 250g.  Huge difference, they are by no means all the same.  Many trade-offs exist such as padding vs diameter or shell harness making it difficult to have a helmet be the best for all circumstances.

Having read through many of the test results, having some knowledge of the physics due to being an engineer, and having researched the topic when my kids were younger and racing, I've come to the conclusion the 6D is by far the best choice for dirt bikes.  You may disagree and can argue that point, but you can not say that are all about the same because a plethora of test results indicate differently.

I will also say this about the brands and costs.  One of the things I noticed from reading a bazillion test reports is that the expensive brands are fairly consistent between models and sizes.  The lower cost helmets and especially the Chinese tennis racket/helmet makers are all over the map.  A helmet may do well in 1 shell size or 1 model may perform well but other products by them are horrible.  Unfortunately I don't think you can find the test reports online anymore.  Marketing departments don't like facts.

 

Where did 6D stand out compared to the other helmets that met the same standards on paper?  I'm also an engineer and the details interest me.  I just picked up a Leatt Moto 3.5 for my son, but would consider a 6D for him if there's a significant difference.  

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I have posted this in the Rider Poll thread on helmets. this is what I see as the difference between a $180.00-200.00 helmet and a $700 plus dollar helmet. so owning both I can tell you that the $700.00 helmet is more comfortable I have a few more hours on it now. that being said the $180.00 is a very good helmet. the most important thing is that they fit correctly. my understanding is that the big difference in these two Bell helmets is the 9 Flex has the more advanced Mips system and the easly removeable cheek pads.    

So I am using Bell I have a  Moto 9 that has about 75 hrs of ride time. great helmet for the money if it fits you. I received a Moto 9 Flex for Christmas and have about 7 hrs of ride time in it. these are my observations. 

I can tell it is lighter

My goggles fit better in the 9 flex

the venting is great

love the easily removeable pads and the magnet on the strap.

I am very happy with both of them. will still use my Moto 9 if I am going to be in wet or muddy condition's just to keep the Flex from getting trashed. now the best part is the Moto 9 Flex was purchased for $299.00 plus shipping from Rocky Mountain during there cyber Monday sale with 2 day shipping was $333.00 to my door.    

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IMG_20210108_164239373_HDR.jpg

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6 minutes ago, sirthumpalot said:

 

Where did 6D stand out compared to the other helmets that met the same standards on paper?  I'm also an engineer and the details interest me.  I just picked up a Leatt Moto 3.5 for my son, but would consider a 6D for him if there's a significant difference.  

When I found test results it predated the 6D, I think it was around when the Shoei VFX had come out.  6D posted some documents on the intent behind their design, and it's sound.  Some technical papers are floating around that describe it pretty well.  They seem to limit most impacts to 250g.  Supposedly anything over 250g can kill the average 50 year old man, and I'm over 50.  With conventional helmets a good wreck is going to be about 450g, I saw them hit that in the DOT tests all the time.

I don't profess to have all the answers, but I read through tons of test reports, exchanged emails with a guy who did helmet testing, and have read as much technical information as I can find.  Based on that, I choose 6D.  It's a novel approach and it doesn't render your helmet a "one use" device like soft EPS or the Shark concept of having the shell crumple on impact.  They aren't hand made in Japan and they aren't the highest build quality available, but in my opinion they are the best technology.  You can often find the prior years models for between $300 and $400.

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2 hours ago, Doc_d said:

 

I don't believe there is a direct correlation between price and protection.  Here's are my thoughts...

I'd avoid all the very cheap no-name brands even if they are certified.  I just don't put it past the Chinese not to cut corners in manufacturing after the testing or even fake certifications if they don't have a Western company managing the engineering, quality control, etc.

Personally I believe a name brand inexpensive certified helmet without any extra safety features (MIPS, etc) will probably protect just as well as a more expensive name brand helmet without any additional safety features (MIPS, etc).   Although you may get some additional features with the more expensive helmet  such as lighter weight, better venting, more comfortable materials, etc.

Helmets with additional safety features such as MIPS, Eject, cheek pads that can be removed with the helmet on in case of neck trauma, etc will probably offer better protection than a less expensive helmet without these features.

When looking at two certified name brand helmets with extra safety features (MIPS, etc) they probably protect equally.  The more expensive of the two may get you some additional features  like lighter weight, better venting, more comfortable materials., etc.

So personally, I believe once you are in the realm of name brand certified helmets, the only time paying more money equates to additional safety is when you step up from helmets without additional safety features (MIPS, eject, etc) to a helmet with addition safety features (MIPS eject, etc).   

Doc

I did some searching on this subject trying to find some numbers, there's really not much out there. What I did find was a study of MTB helmets that was fairly thorough. The one thing that stood out was Mips. All the lids with Mips rated better than most without it, and all the same brand Mips rated a good bit better than the same brand without Mips.

 

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