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Dirt vs street. Drag knee vs leg out. Why?

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                        Nothing is new under the sun.                R.I.P.  Joël                                    

                        18196688_Joel-Robert.png.8325fa7b89dd2a679092ac85a70623c6.png

                             Always loved this picture!                               

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6 minutes ago, Oregon Comrade said:

Looks like he has a ghillie suit on

I thought the same exact thing!

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33 minutes ago, TexasBlues said:

I thought the same exact thing!

That is a Gillie suit 

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Most of the really fast dirt guys aren't putting a foot out anymore, watch Tomac. I watched a lesson the other day and the dude said in 5 years no one will be doing it anymore. If you're saving low sides with your inside leg on dirt your either very slow or about to suffer a catastrophic knee injury. Look up tibial plateau fracture. I keep my feet on my pegs 99% of the time. Dragging knee on the street bikes is cool until you realize it's slowing you down. 

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11 minutes ago, GreatWhiteFire said:

Most of the really fast dirt guys aren't putting a foot out anymore, watch Tomac. I watched a lesson the other day and the dude said in 5 years no one will be doing it anymore. If you're saving low sides with your inside leg on dirt your either very slow or about to suffer a catastrophic knee injury. Look up tibial plateau fracture. I keep my feet on my pegs 99% of the time. Dragging knee on the street bikes is cool until you realize it's slowing you down. 

It’s kinda weird watching the nationals now and you are right they have their feet out way Less than they did 15 years ago.

supermoto is going through the same thing in Europe the french guy smoking everyone doesn’t stick his foot out anymore. 

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1 hour ago, GreatWhiteFire said:

Dragging knee on the street bikes is cool until you realize it's slowing you down. 

But sparkies are cool so it doesn't matter.

sparky.jpg.1d10706dcd9cc3bd08dd39e4f5817af9.jpg

Edited by DEATH_INC.
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7 hours ago, DEATH_INC. said:

But sparkies are cool so it doesn't matter.

sparky.jpg.1d10706dcd9cc3bd08dd39e4f5817af9.jpg

If I tried that I would show my secret tricks

the Shitties, Fallies, and Bleedies with the ambulancies to finish the spectacle

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3 hours ago, GreatWhiteFire said:

Dammit dude, paint that thing better. That's an ugly race bike. 😒

Ha ha. That was long ago. The poor thing went through many color changes, it got thrown down the track every other weekend trying to keep up with the thous.

This was My favorite paint job (same corner I think);

0207MotoTT399.JPG.94ce71526b1fe70cf06175f5582489e8.JPG

Edited by DEATH_INC.
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19 hours ago, DEATH_INC. said:

It was one of the things Gary Bailey taught 'every time you touch the ground with your foot, it stands the bike up'. It being forward is just the best/easiest place to put it.

His physics were mostly correct back in his time, but not sure if all the techniques still apply. 

001.jpg.c582c255f6ef5edbdd43dbc1e5981b77.jpg

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17 minutes ago, 76xtdrvr said:

His physics were mostly correct back in his time, but not sure if all the techniques still apply. 

001.jpg.c582c255f6ef5edbdd43dbc1e5981b77.jpg

That's an oldie.

I look at it this way, I learnt his way from magazines (He did a series in one of them) back in the 80's. I was a lot faster than I am now, but when I remember to use the techniques I learnt it still makes a huge difference (Too many years on roadies, I have a lot of bad habits).

A lot of the teaching stuff I see on youtube etc now is still similar to what He taught, with some minor differences. As far as I can tell all his stuff still applies, bikes haven't changed that much.

That technique demonstrated above wasn't in there though. laugh.gif.22df78f7a7e674cce1bcec52057e4d31.gif

I think the only real difference is the tracks now. And scrubbing didn't exist. I see a huge number of riders out there that could still benefit greatly from his teaching.

Edited by DEATH_INC.
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Yeah. No Youtube or How-to Forums back then. Preston Petty used to have a How to Ride MX series in the old Popular Cycling magazine. I couldn't wait for those issues to come in the mail.

I think it was Gary Bailey that did a "cross up" on his Bul' during the intro to the old Wide World of Sports program. Decoster may have been the first to actually do it in a race. I was like "Holy crap! I can't believe what he can do on a motorcycle". 

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The knee is out the gauge how far over you are aka how much contact patch of tire you have left. Not to look cool. 
 

I was a much better road course guy than I’ll even be dirt guy unfortunately. I have more fun on dirt but also go to the hospital more and I’m slow to boot dammit. 

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I don't know what this feeler gauge stuff is about, you know how far over you are.  The knee drop is to counter the inertia in a hard turn at speed. The lower you can lean the sharper your turn. The sharper your turn the faster you can enter and leave the turn, the turn being the slowest part of the race.

 

Flat Tracker race with metal skid plates on their boots, a bit different than our grippy soles.

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Its as simple as the difference in traction on pavement versus dirt.

The dirt bike rider has to lean the bike over to get it to turn...but, his body has to stay vertical over the bike to put weight the tires.

Road racers have so much traction, they don't need their weight over the bike...and lowering their CG lowers the side load.

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Does it have to do with speed and corner radius plus road racers limiting the maximum bike lean angle because of cornering clearance and tire profile.  I ride both street and dirt but I don't race either.  I do shift my weight to the inside if I'm riding street at a spirited pace.  No need to stick my knee out.  I'm a dirt trail rider so I'm not railing berms. Mostly just keep the bike underneath me as I cruise trails and obstacles, being ready to do quick weight shifts.  MotoGP riders don't use the knee like an outrigger anymore.  That went away a while ago.  They do get their weight to the inside and low.  Check out this photo of Marquez leading Rins.

 

image.png.b9e993dc9bb7cc2a34c57674658174d5.png

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39 minutes ago, BA1 said:

Does it have to do with speed and corner radius plus road racers limiting the maximum bike lean angle because of cornering clearance and tire profile.  I ride both street and dirt but I don't race either.  I do shift my weight to the inside if I'm riding street at a spirited pace.  No need to stick my knee out.  I'm a dirt trail rider so I'm not railing berms. Mostly just keep the bike underneath me as I cruise trails and obstacles, being ready to do quick weight shifts.  MotoGP riders don't use the knee like an outrigger anymore.  That went away a while ago.  They do get their weight to the inside and low.  Check out this photo of Marquez leading Rins.

I refer to what I posted on the 1st page:

In road riding, the idea is to keep a larger contact patch on the ground for traction. The more upright the bike, the greater contact patch can be maintained. So, shifting your weight inside allows the bike to make it thorough the corner in a more upright position. IE - requires less lean angle to make the corner.

Here is a pic of what outside weighting does on a street bike.  Way more lean angle needed to make the turn.

body-position-incorrect-large.jpg.48472a00a39b13fdfe4270bac7e725db.jpg

Edited by dhdrider
added pic

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If you had a guy (or gal) that rides a dirtbike like Valentino Rossi  on pavement ... he or she will be the next world champion for years to come!

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