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Johnny Depp

Beta to Race AMA MX Nationals in 2022!

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To tie a few things together, HDR mentioned the late great Jim Pomeroy as he rode a Beta.  He was probably most famous for Bultaco and Honda.  He had the most fantastic stories about racing in Europe, and the moto groupies, and the moto groupies, and the moto groupies, but I digress.  I hardly knew him, but my best friend back in the day grew up across the street from him.  I took his riding school in about 1984 or 1985, and I was actually quite surprised at how much technique was involved in going fast.  I had no idea.  Most of the things he taught are still taught to this day.  

We've also discussed throttle position, and it's analog nature.  Jim taught an interesting technique, and it actually works quite well.  He wasn't a big fan of using the clutch out of every corner, and he conceded that much of that was due to the clutch fading so quickly on those older bikes, but his alternative technique is something I still do and I've certainly never felt it was a detriment for my riding.  Even my son's 2005 CR125 still has the original clutch in it.  Never had to replace his 65 or 85 clutch either.

Jim had what he called the fast idle technique.  If you grip your throttle so that your wrist is forward at an idle, and relaxed at an open throttle position, you won't close the throttle in the corner all the way.  If you come in with your throttle partially open, and as soon as you set the front tire, roll the throttle on smoothly, you'll find that a 2T will open up and rip much better than wicking the throttle wide open at the last instant as you exit the turn.  If you don't chop the throttle all the way and roll it on smoothly you'll avoid all the bog, lack of low end response etc. the 2T is credited with.  This is most applicable for railing berms, but it works well.  When I'm out riding and finding myself not flowing well I can take a break, focus on this technique in my head, then go back out and execute and my corner exit speed is way better.  No reason to dig holes on the corner exit by abusing the clutch.  It's an alternative technique and I didn't present it to start a debate, just an interesting tie in to our ramblings.

With Tomac I think he's actually just holding the throttle open and modulating torque with the clutch.  Just a theory, but it explains a few things.  Some of his exist speed on hard pack is effing amazing and I don't know how he gets it hooked up so good.

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I just went through the tally in my head on the aforementioned CR125.  Between both of my kids who raced it, it's been through a swingarm, front forks, a rear hub, two sub frames, several cranks, god only knows how many pistons radiators and plastic kits, a few pipes, and the engine cases, but it's still on the original clutch.  They even broke some indestructible ASV levers on it.  Rotella T baby!

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16 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

Jim had what he called the fast idle technique.  If you grip your throttle so that your wrist is forward at an idle, and relaxed at an open throttle position, you won't close the throttle in the corner all the way.  If you come in with your throttle partially open, and as soon as you set the front tire, roll the throttle on smoothly, you'll find that a 2T will open up and rip much better than wicking the throttle wide open at the last instant as you exit the turn.  If you don't chop the throttle all the way and roll it on smoothly you'll avoid all the bog, lack of low end response etc. the 2T is credited with.  This is most applicable for railing berms, but it works well. 

Good stuff there.

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2 hours ago, mxaniac said:

To tie a few things together, HDR mentioned the late great Jim Pomeroy as he rode a Beta.  He was probably most famous for Bultaco and Honda.  He had the most fantastic stories about racing in Europe, and the moto groupies, and the moto groupies, and the moto groupies, but I digress.  I hardly knew him, but my best friend back in the day grew up across the street from him.  I took his riding school in about 1984 or 1985, and I was actually quite surprised at how much technique was involved in going fast.  I had no idea.  Most of the things he taught are still taught to this day.  

We've also discussed throttle position, and it's analog nature.  Jim taught an interesting technique, and it actually works quite well.  He wasn't a big fan of using the clutch out of every corner, and he conceded that much of that was due to the clutch fading so quickly on those older bikes, but his alternative technique is something I still do and I've certainly never felt it was a detriment for my riding.  Even my son's 2005 CR125 still has the original clutch in it.  Never had to replace his 65 or 85 clutch either.

Jim had what he called the fast idle technique.  If you grip your throttle so that your wrist is forward at an idle, and relaxed at an open throttle position, you won't close the throttle in the corner all the way.  If you come in with your throttle partially open, and as soon as you set the front tire, roll the throttle on smoothly, you'll find that a 2T will open up and rip much better than wicking the throttle wide open at the last instant as you exit the turn.  If you don't chop the throttle all the way and roll it on smoothly you'll avoid all the bog, lack of low end response etc. the 2T is credited with.  This is most applicable for railing berms, but it works well.  When I'm out riding and finding myself not flowing well I can take a break, focus on this technique in my head, then go back out and execute and my corner exit speed is way better.  No reason to dig holes on the corner exit by abusing the clutch.  It's an alternative technique and I didn't present it to start a debate, just an interesting tie in to our ramblings.

With Tomac I think he's actually just holding the throttle open and modulating torque with the clutch.  Just a theory, but it explains a few things.  Some of his exist speed on hard pack is effing amazing and I don't know how he gets it hooked up so good.

 You talk like a Beta guy with that throttle control stuff. There's a reason I like my 480 even in single track...high idle is an acurate description.

 The Tomac thing is what Kent Howerton did well, a gear high and using the clutch to launch.

 I apologize for this moment of off topic sanity in this thread, please carry on everyone 😝

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18 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

 You talk like a Beta guy with that throttle control stuff. There's a reason I like my 480 even in single track...high idle is an acurate description.

 

:D:D:D Solid chug like a tractor. @redrider144 won't believe you.

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17 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

 You talk like a Beta guy with that throttle control stuff. There's a reason I like my 480 even in single track...high idle is an acurate description.

 The Tomac thing is what Kent Howerton did well, a gear high and using the clutch to launch.

 I apologize for this moment of off topic sanity in this thread, please carry on everyone 😝

I'm more of a 2T guy.  I've got a 2013 CRF450F, and it has so much put in to it that I've held on to it for too long, but I was never really endeared to it.  The Ron Hamp motor really gets it done though, the guy was remarkable.  Early last year I was back on my KXX500AF, hard to stall and lots of torque for the deep ruts.  When the weather improved and the ruts were mostly gone I rode my TC250 because its much lighter and turns better.  The 4T mostly collects dust.

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17 hours ago, Chaconne said:

:D:D:D Solid chug like a tractor. @redrider144 won't believe you.

I've never said people shouldn't ride 450s in the woods.  I've tried one, I really liked it until things got super technical.  Too punchy at that point, for me.

Edited by redrider144
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1 hour ago, redrider144 said:

I've never said people shouldn't ride 450s in the woods.  I've tried one, I really liked it until things got super technical.  Too punchy at that point, for me.

I would never wish riding my 450 in the woods upon anyone.  Too heavy, too easy to stall, too easy to overheat.

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5 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

I would never wish riding my 450 in the woods upon anyone.  Too heavy, too easy to stall, too easy to overheat.

Agreed, but the crazies that do ride them seem to get all overly sensitive about it.  To each their own, I wouldn't want one personally but there are people that like them.  I'm convinced they all ride quad trails though LOL.

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26 minutes ago, mxaniac said:

I would never wish riding my 450 in the woods upon anyone.  Too heavy, too easy to stall, too easy to overheat.

FWW, right map, a few more teeth on the rear sprocket, and maybe rekluse  and you are good to go. :ride: The worst bike ever in the woods for me was the KTM 350 xcf. Terrible I sold it after 1 season to by my buddy. I should have let @redrider144 get his first before I dropped the 10k.

Anyhow my buddy did the mods and it is awesome for him now. He also added a Boyesen supercooler which somehow or another reduced the overheats by a lot.

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Just now, Chaconne said:

FWW, right map, a few more teeth on the rear sprocket, and maybe rekluse  and you are good to go. :ride: The worst bike ever in the woods for me was the KTM 350 xcf. Terrible I sold it after 1 season to by my buddy. I should have let @redrider144 get his first before I dropped the 10k.

Anyhow my buddy did the mods and it is awesome for him now. He also added a Boyesen supercooler which somehow or another reduced the overheats by a lot.

Too heavy, for the PNW single track it's not the right platform.

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1 hour ago, mxaniac said:

Too heavy, for the PNW single track it's not the right platform.

What do you ride on PNW single track?

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31 minutes ago, Chaconne said:

What do you ride on PNW single track?

I had a CR250 with an oversized tank and a flywheel weight, but that burned up.  A softer suspended 2T with an 18" rear wheel would have been better though.

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On 1/15/2021 at 5:24 PM, MotorBoatin said:


Cry Baby 

 

F626E1A2-8197-4646-B0AD-EE8CA96B4A39.jpeg.1fc1bb00115998423080e82e49f97451.jpeg

Another pic of that dbag that completely proves my point!

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