Jump to content
Johnny Depp

Vital MX Beta 300 RX Raceshop Build Video

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Oh boy, Vital has f**ked up the bike and Pingree showed why he's a fireman and not a real tester. You'd think they'd ask someone at Beta how to set one up, instead they went to KYB who called Japan who called Italy since no one knew anything. 

They used a proto KYB shock (length?) and ran 107 sag and ran the forks up until they hit the (FMF fatty) pipe. Never got the front end to cooperate, I wonder why...

A simple call to Beta USA would have likely solved their issues, including the tall firm seat. 

MXA is still the best, they keep a bike and ride it for a while, not bolt on unknown parts and ride it 1 day and make a video. I left Vital a nice comment..

Edited by Johnny Depp
  • Like 1
  • Helpful 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Oh boy, Vital has f**ked up the bike and Pingree showed why he's a fireman and not a real tester. You'd think they'd ask someone at Beta how to set one up, instead they went to KYB who called Japan who called Italy since no one knew anything. 

They used a proto KYB shock (length?) and ran 107 sag and ran the forks up until they hit the (FMF fatty) pipe. Never got the front end to cooperate, I wonder why...

A simple call to Beta USA would have likely solved their issues, including the tall firm seat. 

MXA is still the best, they keep a bike an ride it for a while, not bolt on unknown parts and ride it 1 day and make a video. I left Vital a nice comment..

I totally agree, Wtf were they thinking at Vital??? They could have called Beta for recommendations on the suspension, seat, and everything else. Not once in the video did they talk about the brakes, clutch, or jetting. They put a bunch of shiny parts on it and only complained about the suspension. You think they would have looked at the MXA review for an idea on how to make this bike work. So bad.  

  • Helpful 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

 

8 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Oh boy, Vital has f**ked up the bike and Pingree showed why he's a fireman and not a real tester. You'd think they'd ask someone at Beta how to set one up, instead they went to KYB who called Japan who called Italy since no one knew anything. 

They used a proto KYB shock (length?) and ran 107 sag and ran the forks up until they hit the (FMF fatty) pipe. Never got the front end to cooperate, I wonder why...

A simple call to Beta USA would have likely solved their issues, including the tall firm seat. 

MXA is still the best, they keep a bike an ride it for a while, not bolt on unknown parts and ride it 1 day and make a video. I left Vital a nice comment..

Ok so I watched the vid and damn you’re right.. These guys act like noob idiots. I figured as the vid continued it would correct itself in time but damn . Dummies. ..and please just leave the bike stock with red plastics. The black looks shitty in comparison to just how the bike comes. They said they were working on this a long time??? What no common sense? These guys are supposed to know better or should know better.. I guess Vitalmx is a bit lame. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

 

Ok so I watched the vid and damn you’re right.. These guys act like noob idiots. I figured as the vid continued it would correct itself in time but damn . Dummies. ..and please just leave the bike stock with red plastics. The black looks shitty in comparison to just how the bike comes. They said they were working on this a long time??? What no common sense? These guys are supposed to know better or should know better.. I guess Vitalmx is a bit lame. 

In my screen, the lettering etc. looked..... orange. Perhaps the contrast with black and probably they used old Honda XR red....

And lets not talk about suspension with those guys....↔️

  • Helpful 1
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am biased watching it because I love my Beta. It really seemed like they wanted to make it mirror another bike instead of dialing it in as a Beta. Kinda like they got stuck using their Japanese bike recipe and for some reason it didn’t work.

Beta has great support and they should have used it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Gumbybronco said:

I am biased watching it because I love my Beta. It really seemed like they wanted to make it mirror another bike instead of dialing it in as a Beta. Kinda like they got stuck using their Japanese bike recipe and for some reason it didn’t work.

Beta has great support and they should have used it.

It's the sign of the times.To many sissys who can't think their way out of a wet paper bag,given a platform to showcase their ignorance.You see it ever more on social media platforms with the infants incessant cries for help.They all need a wet nurse and a nanny to help them get through their day.      "Help,help,my hoo ha is stuck in the top buckle of my Alpinestars!" or even better,:Somebody should do something about----"This platform is one of the better ones as a appropriate response is not treated like a crime.OK,that's my rant for the morning.

Edited by Odysseus
  • Like 4
  • Helpful 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Gumbybronco said:

I am biased watching it because I love my Beta. It really seemed like they wanted to make it mirror another bike instead of dialing it in as a Beta. Kinda like they got stuck using their Japanese bike recipe and for some reason it didn’t work.

Beta has great support and they should have used it.

I kind don’t even care that much as I think every brand bike can be having its suspension setup for mx.  I love my Betas for off-road. This is something different. It’s a couple of MX guys that are just straight up embarrassing themselves.  Just ask Beta. Their Beta came second in the 2 stroke National so duh...

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hawaiidirtrider said:

Maybe Vitalmx should have just did a test ride of say Demartiles race Beta... 

Why the hell were they farting around with a prototype shock no one can get that is still in development too.?  

I guess the good news is, most likely the KYB shock is coming for production. If they get it wrong it will still sell better just like the KYB forks it is brand marketing and Sachs ZF has no street cred. Vital was correct that the KYB forks are not the same as everyones else's. Longer tubes and different valving. Why Beta has put longer forks tubes on the bikes make no sense at all, when they already had a chassis balance turning issue and they went the wrong way. They read a lot of things on Thumpertalk in Italy, but apparently not that one. A longer shock or shorter forks is the answer. I'm hoping the MXGP team get's it right and it follows into production. Early results indicate they have improved the handling, and I did send them a few IG messages just to help a little😀

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

I guess the good news is, most likely the KYB shock is coming for production. If they get it wrong it will still sell better just like the KYB forks it is brand marketing and Sachs ZF has no street cred. Vital was correct that the KYB forks are not the same as everyones else's. Longer tubes and different valving. Why Beta has put longer forks tubes on the bikes make no sense at all, when they already had a chassis balance turning issue and they went the wrong way. They read a lot of things on Thumpertalk in Italy, but apparently not that one. A longer shock or shorter forks is the answer. I'm hoping the MXGP team get's it right and it follows into production. Early results indicate they have improved the handling, and I did send them a few IG messages just to help a little😀

Why is it making no sense that Beta puts longer fork tubes? You or I didn’t ride an RX. Maybe it’s better for turning and MX? How is the bike setup overall? They came in second in the 2 stroke National. They’ve already tested and been testing it. They know better than us. How do you know there is a chassis balance turning issue? You don’t. You don’t know if a longer shock or fork is better or worse in the RX case.. There’s only a few that have even ridden an RX and you or I aren’t included there. It would be fun to ride one though and see how it is. The RX is a very new and very rare bike  . I think as time goes on and more get them then guys will share more settings and just more will be familiar and know what’s up with them.  For now we got guys like RyanE33 that are nice enough to share some thoughts about his and maybe a few others might share  about their RX 300’s??

Where are you getting your suspension tuning info about RX’s from????

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Johnny Depp said:

I guess the good news is, most likely the KYB shock is coming for production. If they get it wrong it will still sell better just like the KYB forks it is brand marketing and Sachs ZF has no street cred. Vital was correct that the KYB forks are not the same as everyones else's. Longer tubes and different valving. Why Beta has put longer forks tubes on the bikes make no sense at all, when they already had a chassis balance turning issue and they went the wrong way. They read a lot of things on Thumpertalk in Italy, but apparently not that one. A longer shock or shorter forks is the answer. I'm hoping the MXGP team get's it right and it follows into production. Early results indicate they have improved the handling, and I did send them a few IG messages just to help a little😀

I thought the rear was different on the rx? The rear wheel travel is different compared to a 300rr-re, according to Beta's website. 

Lol at the notion that Beta's have a chassis balance issue...is that something you read online, or have you actually experienced that first hand? I would agree that was the case with the pre '20's, but not so anymore. I guess if you just sit down at the back of the seat, they turn like shit, but that's the same for poor technique on any bike. My '20 300re is the best bike I've had in regards to consistent handling...quite a bit better "front" steering bike than say a Yamaha yz250.

If the rx was given increased travel on both ends, I don't know why the general handling characteristics would change that much.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Johnny Depp said:

I guess the good news is, most likely the KYB shock is coming for production. If they get it wrong it will still sell better just like the KYB forks it is brand marketing and Sachs ZF has no street cred. Vital was correct that the KYB forks are not the same as everyones else's. Longer tubes and different valving. Why Beta has put longer forks tubes on the bikes make no sense at all, when they already had a chassis balance turning issue and they went the wrong way. They read a lot of things on Thumpertalk in Italy, but apparently not that one. A longer shock or shorter forks is the answer. I'm hoping the MXGP team get's it right and it follows into production. Early results indicate they have improved the handling, and I did send them a few IG messages just to help a little😀

Oh no!! To quote someone “Beta is washed up” 🙄

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Sierra_moto said:

I thought the rear was different on the rx? The rear wheel travel is different compared to a 300rr-re, according to Beta's website. 

Lol at the notion that Beta's have a chassis balance issue...is that something you read online, or have you actually experienced that first hand? I would agree that was the case with the pre '20's, but not so anymore. I guess if you just sit down at the back of the seat, they turn like shit, but that's the same for poor technique on any bike. My '20 300re is the best bike I've had in regards to consistent handling...quite a bit better "front" steering bike than say a Yamaha yz250.

If the rx was given increased travel on both ends, I don't know why the general handling characteristics would change that much.

Especially for the shock, longer suspension travel doesn't necessarily means longer shock. You can just use a shorter bump stop.... 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 A little conversation going on with the tester's at Vital..

 Vital isn't alone, MXA struggled with the Beta chassis balance also.

https://motocrossactionmag.com/mxa-race-test-the-real-test-of-the-2021-beta-300rx-motocross/

Q: HOW DID THE BETA 300RX HANDLE?

A: The balance of the Kayaba AOS forks and Sachs shock were way off from the git-go. The shock sat high, and the forks were super soft. With sag at 105mm, even our tallest riders were on their tippy toes. We dropped the sag down to 110mm, put 30cc of oil in each fork leg and adjusted the compression setting all the way stiff. When we conferred with Beta about the soft forks, they said they had a stiffer setting ready to put into the 2021 Beta 300RX, but with everything that went on in the motorcycle industry in 2020, they were unable to make it happen. The bottom line is that they are aware of the issue and will make changes to the 2022 model. Our shade-tree adjustments brought the 300RX closer to being balanced fore and aft. It got the chassis in the ballpark. 

The front of the seat is 3/4 of an inch further back from the head tube, as on a KTM. This may not seem like much, but when our test riders pushed the 300RX in corners, it would stand up. Test riders had to remember to slide their body weight an inch farther forward on the seat to get enough weight on the front end to keep the 300RX’s front wheel planted. (3) The Sachs shock had a different feel. Not in a bad way, but it worked differently from what we were used to. It gave us a similar feeling to the WP Drop-Out shock (without the noise). Much like the purpose of the almost-forgotten Drop-Out shock, it was excellent at keeping the rear wheel in contact with the ground. This was a weird feeling at first, but once we learned its traits, we appreciated the shock’s movement.

 So MXA didn't go the right direction with the chassis either. Hard to believe that Beta sends out test bikes not set up correctly on such an important model as this. It's disappointing that all these years later Beta has not solved this handling flaw, which is easily corrected.

Edited by Johnny Depp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2021 at 6:19 PM, hawaiidirtrider said:

Where are you getting your suspension tuning info about RX’s from???

Read what Ryan has said, and MXA and Vital. It isn't hard to figure out or necessary to ride the bike. Beta hasn't changed any rake/trail or other major changes to the frame ever. A little gusset here and there and some new tabs to mount things is about it. 

Every crash I've ever had on my Beta has been front end related at high speeds. It is never noticed if you aren't pushing the limits, and it doesn't give much warning, the front end just washes out.

 At least on my 4t, it is easily dealt with. Heavier rear spring and front for my weight, under 100 front and rear sag, forks up in the clamps until the handling is neutral. I have had it too far where the bike only wants to take inside lines, so it is achievable (shorter forks on mine than current). 

 We have seen it over and over and over on this forum over the years, and it is almost always misunderstood since people use traditional settings and sag that chopper's the bike worse.

Vital just did a interview with KR94's mechanic, and guess what his setup is?

Stinkbug chassis, full travel from the suspension components, tame the engine and ride a gear high. Go figure.

Edited by Johnny Depp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/8/2021 at 11:22 PM, dirtbird said:

Especially for the shock, longer suspension travel doesn't necessarily means longer shock. You can just use a shorter bump stop.... 

Pretty sure on the RX they just eliminated the top out bumper spring? That may have made the shock longer, but from reading tests I don't think so. This is an area that needs more detailed measurements of shock and forks lengths.

Edited by Johnny Depp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, hondaman331 said:

So this is like a Yamaha? KTM smokers handle excellent to superior in straight line and turning. Can the beta be fixed to turn AND be stable? I want one, but the high seat has me scared

 Absolutely a Beta can do both, and better than anything else out there. That is why it is so frustrating to see these guys not know how to do it, it is simple. They come choppered, get them stinkbug and it's golden. Weight on the front. That's easy to say now, but we learned it over years on this forum and in real life.

KTM's headshake will have you saying prayers.

 I had full intentions of buying a steering stabilizer and Rekluse auto clutch. Never did either, it doesn't need it. The chassis is perhaps the best on the market, as evidenced by 5 consecutive EnduroGP titles. 

Edited by Johnny Depp
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...