Vital MX Beta 300 RX Raceshop Build Video

[David37]

Vital MX couldn't figure out how to get the Sach shock working to their liking so they install a KYB proto type shock (that no can get) from a Yamaha and that improved the handling of the Beta. How is that helpful to the average rider?   

[campdirt]

it says that the ill handling is not the frame? thats the best spin i got

[Johnny Depp]

On 6/8/2021 at 6:58 PM, Sierra_moto said:

Lol at the notion that Beta's have a chassis balance issue...is that something you read online, or have you actually experienced that first hand? I would agree that was the case with the pre '20's, but not so anymore.

Read above. Beta's have always been choppered, and yes I have broken bones to back up my statement.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, David37 said:

Vital MX couldn't figure out how to get the Sach shock working to their liking so they install a KYB proto type shock (that no can get) from a Yamaha and that improved the handling of the Beta. How is that helpful to the average rider?   

Or were they just more comfortable with what they already know. That's how confirmation bias works. 

[Armbarn sailor]

29 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

 Absolutely a Beta can do both, and better than anything else out there. That is why it is so frustrating to see these guys not know how to do it, it is simple. They come choppered, get them stinkbug and it's golden. Weight on the front. That's easy to say now, but we learned it over years on this forum and in real life.

KTM's headshake will have you saying prayers.

 I had full intentions of buying a steering stabilizer and Rekluse auto clutch. Never did either, it doesn't need it. The chassis is perhaps the best on the market, as evidenced by 5 consecutive EnduroGP titles. 

I do enjoy a stink bug bike. My husky was sent from the factory with 105mm sag and I like 95-100mm and feel the 105 is choppered. So it’ll be similar to the husky feel? Is it wider then the current ktm frame? How stiff is frame? I like stink bug and a stiff frame honestly

[Johnny Depp]

4 minutes ago, hondaman331 said:

I do enjoy a stink bug bike. My husky was sent from the factory with 105mm sag and I like 95-100mm and feel the 105 is choppered. So it’ll be similar to the husky feel? Is it wider then the current ktm frame? How stiff is frame? I like stink bug and a stiff frame honestly

 If you ask Kranny he'll be more informed on the KTM/Husky, but they seem to be less stiff for his big frame. 

Remember, sag is only a band aid for chassis balance and should be based upon 1/3 of travel. Fork and shock length (and settings) are the main factors.

[Armbarn sailor]

1 minute ago, Johnny Depp said:

 If you ask Kranny he'll be more informed on the KTM/Husky, but they seem to be less stiff for his big frame. 

Remember, sag is only a band aid for chassis balance and should be based upon 1/3 of travel. Fork and shock length (and settings) are the main factors.

I just set them how they good. Husky sag is 97mm with 40mm static sag. I doubt I’m so far off it’s out of range. Feels really good, aer forks with 150psi. Chatters a lot more then the beta would, beta probably is plush with a great connection 

[Johnny Depp]

40 minutes ago, David37 said:

and that ruined the handling of the Beta.

Fixed.

[Sierra_rider]

2 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

Read above. Beta's have always been choppered, and yes I have broken bones to back up my statement.

You've broken your bones on a '20+ chassis? Not your 2015 which shares almost nothing with a '22?

[Johnny Depp]

8 minutes ago, Sierra_moto said:

You've broken your bones on a '20+ chassis? Not your 2015 which shares almost nothing with a '22?

 Really? Please tell me when Beta changed their rake and trail? Suspension, wheels brakes and engine will bolt on my bike from the current models. Sooo different?

[Sierra_rider]

10 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

 Really? Please tell me when Beta changed their rake and trail? Suspension, wheels brakes and engine will bolt on my bike from the current models. Sooo different?

So you haven't ridden a '20? 

[Johnny Depp]

57 minutes ago, Sierra_moto said:

So you haven't ridden a '20? 

Yes I have. Have you ridden a '15? Does it really matter? This is the internet, and a discussion forum, opinions matter.

[Sierra_rider]

Just now, Johnny Depp said:

Yes I have. Have you ridden a '15? Does it really matter? This is the internet, and a discussion forum, opinions matter.

Lol, I used to own a '15 300re...own a '20 300re now. The problem is you assume your opinion is fact. 

[Johnny Depp]

17 minutes ago, Sierra_moto said:

Lol, I used to own a '15 300re...own a '20 300re now. The problem is you assume your opinion is fact. 

As you know, in this forum and other tests we see the same complaints come up over and over. Soft springs and slack front end. It is a fact.

[Sierra_rider]

19 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

As you know, in this forum and other tests we see the same complaints come up over and over. Soft springs and slack front end. It is a fact.

I guess I don't read into the complaints and what magazine "testers" say. 

[campdirt]

1 hour ago, Johnny Depp said:

As you know, in this forum and other tests we see the same complaints come up over and over. Soft springs and slack front end. It is a fact.

so whats the formula? how much do you recommend extending the shock?

[dirtbird]

JD there are differences that cannot described in a spec sheet. Otherwise all bikes from all makes would ride similarly. 

The post 20 chassis has a different riding position that puts the rider more in front and in top of the forks. It's more aggressive and this translates on how the bike handles. On 4t there are some other geometric changes as well in order to achieve better mass centralization. 

From the little I have ridden the new chassis I felt that it is more sure footed in the front requiring less input from the rider but also felt to have a bit of a stink bug feel but this is perhaps the seat ergonomics. If I manage to get a bike in July (that's the plan whatsoever) perhaps I will have more to share about that. 

[Johnny Depp]

46 minutes ago, campdirt said:

so whats the formula? how much do you recommend extending the shock?

This goes back years, @GP and @hammer developed a way to insert a 4mm ball bearing between the shock shaft and clevis IIRC. At that point the sag is far less critical.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Johnny Depp

[Johnny Depp]

45 minutes ago, dirtbird said:

JD there are differences that cannot described in a spec sheet. Otherwise all bikes from all makes would ride similarly. 

The post 20 chassis has a different riding position that puts the rider more in front and in top of the forks. It's more aggressive and this translates on how the bike handles. On 4t there are some other geometric changes as well in order to achieve better mass centralization. 

From the little I have ridden the new chassis I felt that it is more sure footed in the front requiring less input from the rider but also felt to have a bit of a stink bug feel but this is perhaps the seat ergonomics. If I manage to get a bike in July (that's the plan whatsoever) perhaps I will have more to share about that. 

 I'm aware of the differences. The 4t got the engine placed 20mm rearward! and a longer swingarm (along with the clutch shaft being moved up). The seating position will always be relative to the handlebars regardless of the seat shape. Yes it got taller (not sure how, seat?) but it did not change the geometry of the front ends. 

 When you hear enough owner input here and elsewhere, and read the tests and connect the dots, it's clear the issue still exists. There are relatively minor adjustments that can compensate for it, but they are not well known. The Beta setup should be different than Austrian or Japanese models and better defined by Beta. This has been known since at least 2012 when Beta offered a different pull rod on the stillborn XC models which did the same thing as extending the shock only it also changed the linkage ratio. I assume Beta is comfortable with this all along since they mostly market old guys on trail bikes and they don't know the difference since they aren't racers and are focused on comfort? Now that the MX model is out, and another on the way, this issue is starting to surface and needs to be addressed.

 When you have testers loving your engines and shaming your chassis/suspension on an issue that doesn't require money to correct, merely setup knowledge, it is irresponsible not to get that information out there. At least set up the bikes before handing them over to testing and revise the setup info.

 It's pretty obvious Beta Racing knows how to set them up (well not the GNCC team) but that info is not flowing to customers.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Johnny Depp

[firffighter]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

This goes back years, @GP and @hammer developed a way to insert a 4mm ball bearing between the shock shaft and clevis IIRC. At that point the sag is far less critical.

And you've ridden with these gentlemen. 

You've seen them ride,  so you're assured they understand the intricacies of the Beta suspension as it pertains to all forms of off road riding? 

You understand that the bikes were 2 generations ago and the suspension package from back then was far different than today's current bikes? 

You do realize the age and ability of these rides?

The terrain and pace at which they ride? 

 

You're basing your information from faceless anonymous people on a forum. For all we know they could be guys that don't even ride and just come here acting like experts.  Lord knows that's commonplace on this forum. 

I said it in '17 when I came on here. 

I trust no one who won't show themselves riding. Period. 

It's too easy to be a fake on here and the forum has been exposed for what it truly is. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by firffighter