Vital MX Beta 300 RX Raceshop Build Video

[Johnny Depp]

7 minutes ago, firffighter said:

And you've ridden with these gentlemen. 

You've seen them ride,  so you're assured they understand the intricacies of the Beta suspension as it pertains to all forms of off road riding? 

You understand that the bikes were 2 generations ago and the suspension package from back then was far different than today's current bikes? 

You do realize the age and ability of these rides?

The terrain and pace at which they ride? 

 

You're basing your information from faceless anonymous people on a forum. For all we know they could be guys that don't even ride and just come here acting like experts.  Lord knows that's commonplace on this forum. 

 

 It's really simple. Set up your chassis stinkbug and ride it and see for yourself if you can hit the inside lines better. If not do whatever you want, but I will say it doesn't surface until you are on the ragged edge of front tire traction. This is not about suspension performance directly. Hard pack and sand is where it shows itself the most.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Johnny Depp

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, firffighter said:

And you've ridden with these gentlemen. 

You've seen them ride,  so you're assured they understand the intricacies of the Beta suspension as it pertains to all forms of off road riding? 

You understand that the bikes were 2 generations ago and the suspension package from back then was far different than today's current bikes? 

You do realize the age and ability of these rides?

The terrain and pace at which they ride? 

 

You're basing your information from faceless anonymous people on a forum. For all we know they could be guys that don't even ride and just come here acting like experts.  Lord knows that's commonplace on this forum. 

I said it in '17 when I came on here. 

I trust no one who won't show themselves riding. Period. 

It's too easy to be a fake on here and the forum has been exposed for what it truly is. 

Idk about that, some of us that haven't posted a bunch of video have hassled you plenty to actually go ride. You don't think a guy like that would show up to let you just tow him around all day do ya?

[firffighter]

1 minute ago, Johnny Depp said:

 It's really simple. Set up your chassis stinkbug and ride it and see for yourself if you can hit the inside lines better. If not do whatever you want, but I will say it doesn't surface until you are on the ragged edge of front tire traction. This is not about suspension performance directly.

Avoiding the questions yet again because you have based your entire knowledge base from the internet, not from riding.  

I have a ton of hours on the same year 250RR GP has.

The bike was put on the podium several times in A class. 

There's no stinkbug or chopper

 

 

 

 

[Johnny Depp]

1 minute ago, firffighter said:

Avoiding the questions yet again because you have based your entire knowledge base from the internet, not from riding.  

I have a ton of hours on the same year 250RR GP has.

The bike was put on the podium several times in A class. 

There's no stinkbug or chopper

 

 

 

 

 It's not something you see in a picture. Although that bike looks totally topped out in the rear as if almost no static sag. That's what you want. You probably had it set up correctly. It doesn't require parts. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Johnny Depp said:

 It's not something you see in a picture. Although that bike looks totally topped out in the rear as if almost no static sag. That's what you want. You probably had it set up correctly. It doesn't require parts. 

You can see it on mine, it's totally choppered, but I like the shock set up really soft for woods and it's easy to adjust when I hit the desert. I also don't sit on it much. 

[firffighter]

1 minute ago, MalusAsinae said:

You can see it on mine, it's totally choppered, but I like the shock set up really soft for woods and it's easy to adjust when I hit the desert. I also don't sit on it much. 

JD doesn't respond to guys with old mismatched gear who ride woods. 

BTW,  you're nearly sitting on the rear fender.  JD approved attack position. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by firffighter

[firffighter]

JD and HDR should open up a suspension shop. 

Their tag line is:

"We're really old and slow, but we make up for it by getting all of our information from the internet"

[Johnny Depp]

5 minutes ago, MalusAsinae said:

You can see it on mine, it's totally choppered, but I like the shock set up really soft for woods and it's easy to adjust when I hit the desert. I also don't sit on it much. 

 It seems you are well aware of the differences. There is certainly more than one way to set up a bike. On second look, @firffighter seat is sloping forward which keeps the rider forward also and indicates stinkbug. As in your photo, without a rider onboard it's hard to tell.

Edited June 11, 2021 by Johnny Depp

[Johnny Depp]

2 minutes ago, firffighter said:

JD and HDR should open up a suspension shop. 

Their tag line is:

"We're really old and slow, but we make up for it by getting all of our information from the internet"

 You keep acting like this is suspension. It's chassis balance. 

Funny stuff coming from someone who spends the days with me online..

[firffighter]

5 minutes ago, Johnny Depp said:

 It seems you are well aware of the differences. There is certainly more than one way to set up a bike. On second look, @firffighter seat is sloping forward which keeps the rider forward also and indicates stinkbug.

JD's suspension package included this counterweight protruding from his helmet to help balance the bike.

 

Apparently a dualsport from 7 years ago being ridden on a beginner MX track makes one a suspension and chassis guru.  That and thousands of hours on Vital 

Edited June 11, 2021 by firffighter

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, firffighter said:

JD doesn't respond to guys with old mismatched gear who ride woods. 

BTW,  you're nearly sitting on the rear fender.  JD approved attack position. 

I'm not riding silly, don't even have gloves on. Waiting for the mx kids to get suited up. Started that ride with 7, down to 2 after 15 miles lol. I go nowhere without the Grundens, I'm a coast native. 

[firffighter]

31 minutes ago, MalusAsinae said:

Idk about that, some of us that haven't posted a bunch of video have hassled you plenty to actually go ride. You don't think a guy like that would show up to let you just tow him around all day do ya?

I have standards.

They're extremely low, but still.

 

 

[dirtbird]

1 hour ago, Johnny Depp said:

 I'm aware of the differences. The 4t got the engine placed 20mm rearward! and a longer swingarm (along with the clutch shaft being moved up). The seating position will always be relative to the handlebars regardless of the seat shape. Yes it got taller (not sure how, seat?) but it did not change the geometry of the front ends. 

 When you hear enough owner input here and elsewhere, and read the tests and connect the dots, it's clear the issue still exists. There are relatively minor adjustments that can compensate for it, but they are not well known. The Beta setup should be different than Austrian or Japanese models and better defined by Beta. This has been known since at least 2012 when Beta offered a different pull rod on the stillborn XC models which did the same thing as extending the shock only it also changed the linkage ratio. I assume Beta is comfortable with this all along since they mostly market old guys on trail bikes and they don't know the difference since they aren't racers and are focused on comfort? Now that the MX model is out, and another on the way, this issue is starting to surface and needs to be addressed.

 When you have testers loving your engines and shaming your chassis/suspension on an issue that doesn't require money to correct, merely setup knowledge, it is irresponsible not to get that information out there. At least set up the bikes before handing them over to testing and revise the setup info.

 It's pretty obvious Beta Racing knows how to set them up (well not the GNCC team) but that info is not flowing to customers.

2012 CROSS-COUNTRY RR450's only difference was the lower linkage was shorter about 1mm and that raised the rear around 3mm. I still have the part on my bench. 

New chassis Feels taller mainly because the new gas tank is wider at the rear and when you're stationary you open your legs more to touch the ground. I think that in the doec sheet, saddle height it's still the same or very close. 

51 minutes ago, firffighter said:

And you've ridden with these gentlemen. 

You've seen them ride,  so you're assured they understand the intricacies of the Beta suspension as it pertains to all forms of off road riding? 

You understand that the bikes were 2 generations ago and the suspension package from back then was far different than today's current bikes? 

You do realize the age and ability of these rides?

The terrain and pace at which they ride? 

 

You're basing your information from faceless anonymous people on a forum. For all we know they could be guys that don't even ride and just come here acting like experts.  Lord knows that's commonplace on this forum. 

I said it in '17 when I came on here. 

I trust no one who won't show themselves riding. Period. 

It's too easy to be a fake on here and the forum has been exposed for what it truly is. 

Agree with your point that JDs bike is quite older now and certainly suspension-wise there have been many updates. I don't agree that his bike is a dual sport. That is how us beta baptized it adding few thinks like the speedo in order to market it in a wider group. His bike is a normal RR if that era.

Regarding the videos, this is a trap. You can't really tell the speed (when on board) or see the little details on the ground. 

Also when I watched some of your first videos (even when you declared that here I am not riding fast, just showing you dome trails or was it a hill climb?) I initially thought that you could ride better. Then when I saw your Yamaha video, then I could understand the speed and your ability. Still the terrain looked easy but as I said you can't see the small things from a video. 

So I hold a very small basket when I  see a video and I am extra careful on my assumptions not to mention that I almost never comment. 

Edit - PS: yes, I wouldn't ride in any mx track with a 2015 Sachs setup. Just changing springs tells me nothing but if JD has fun doing that it's OK by me. 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by dirtbird

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, firffighter said:

I have standards.

They're extremely low, but still.

 

 

It's a long list of TT luminaries I've ridden with, there have been regrets, but not too many. 

[Johnny Depp]

15 minutes ago, firffighter said:

JD's suspension package included this counterweight protruding from his helmet to help balance the bike.

 

Apparently a dualsport from 7 years ago being ridden on a beginner MX track makes one a suspension and chassis guru.  That and thousands of hours on Vital 

 This will be fun, you posting up some of my stuff. That was an experiment that half ass worked but needed development.

For someone unfamiliar with GP you seem to know his bike, the '13 model he still retains, and you on your trusty '08?, your line is getting old and worn out.

Remember the Blue Pig? The bike that no one in America had any consistent success on? Now 2 races into the MX season Star has turned that bike into a prize pig. Set up matters.

[Johnny Depp]

5 minutes ago, dirtbird said:

2012 CROSS-COUNTRY RR450's only difference was the lower linkage was shorter about 1mm and that raised the rear around 3mm. I still have the part on my bench. 

Wanna get rid of it? Did you actually own one? I never saw any evidence of them really existing?

[dirtbird]

Just now, Johnny Depp said:

Wanna get rid of it? Did you actually own one? I never saw any evidence of them really existing?

I got one in 2013 and used it for a very short time (about 2-3 rides which we evaluated it together with the rider I support). 

There is 1 pin missing from the one bearing, otherwise is like new. Let me decide if I want to use it in the new bike and I will PM you soon. 

[Armbarn sailor]

So the 300rx is a handling issue straight from beta and takes time to setup for the rider? Seems pretty normal

[Woodschamp]

4 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

 This will be fun, you posting up some of my stuff. That was an experiment that half ass worked but needed development.

For someone unfamiliar with GP you seem to know his bike, the '13 model he still retains, and you on your trusty '08?, your line is getting old and worn out.

Remember the Blue Pig? The bike that no one in America had any consistent success on? Now 2 races into the MX season Star has turned that bike into a prize pig. Set up matters.

I think Star is getting too much credit , Ferrandis is coming into his stride , they have slightly improved a bike that has been flawed for a decade , Ferrandis is the one making it shine. And speaking of Great riders and Blue pigs I’ll just leave this here. 
 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by Woodschamp

[Johnny Depp]

2 hours ago, Woodschamp said:

I think Star is getting too much credit , Ferrandis is coming into his stride , they have slightly improved a bike that has been flawed for a decade , Ferrandis is the one making it shine. And speaking of Great riders and Blue pigs I’ll just leave this here. 
 

 

 

Brakes are for pussy's ?