Vital MX Beta 300 RX Raceshop Build Video

[GP]

First off, I figured this problem out some years back, modified my shock, and sent a few sets of simple parts to do the same to a few friends here with similar complaints and open minds.  To a man, they were quite pleased with the results.  Its pretty obvious doing a little math that the stock bikes were unbalanced and this transforms the chopper into a much more planted and sharp handling machine.   The degree to which the stock setup lacks front traction has many variables,  but for sure it requires an exaggerated forward body position in corners.   More technical riding, less of an issue.  Coming from a long time on GGs that stuck the front like glue and turned on a dime this was very obvious to me.   I have not ridden a '20, have ridden up to '19 various models and they all feel pretty much the same.  I assumed it was fixed in '20 because the low seat height was sacrificed but perhaps not.   

Second,  I have said many, many times EXACTLY why I do not post riding videos.  In fact I don't even take video anymore.   I really don't give a &%$#@! about developing and maintaining a "TT Resume" of riding accomplishments to be qualified to offer advice.  This shit is child's play compared to what I do for a living and this forum simply a diversion or mental break from the grind at times.

You guys think the stock bike is fine for you, good, have at it.    You think its unbalanced, washes out,  and needs something,  I have discussed the details.  BUT, don't think for a minute that just because the bike was designed that way the factory engineers know best, that's just ignorance of how product engineering and mfg. works.

[firffighter]

33 minutes ago, GP said:

this forum simply a diversion or mental break from the grind at times.

No, this forum means everything.........to some.

Anyone who takes it seriously lives for this forum and why it's nothing but a Facebook page, sharing recipes and arguing over inane topics that don't pertain to most because they don't ride the bikes or type of riding to begin with.  

60 year olds taking this seriously and all "experts" and getting bent and making excuses when their riding acumen is questioned is why it's so entertaining.  

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by firffighter

[Guest]

2 hours ago, GP said:

First off, I figured this problem out some years back, modified my shock, and sent a few sets of simple parts to do the same to a few friends here with similar complaints and open minds.  To a man, they were quite pleased with the results.  Its pretty obvious doing a little math that the stock bikes were unbalanced and this transforms the chopper into a much more planted and sharp handling machine.   The degree to which the stock setup lacks front traction has many variables,  but for sure it requires an exaggerated forward body position in corners.   More technical riding, less of an issue.  Coming from a long time on GGs that stuck the front like glue and turned on a dime this was very obvious to me.   I have not ridden a '20, have ridden up to '19 various models and they all feel pretty much the same.  I assumed it was fixed in '20 because the low seat height was sacrificed but perhaps not.   

Second,  I have said many, many times EXACTLY why I do not post riding videos.  In fact I don't even take video anymore.   I really don't give a &%$#@! about developing and maintaining a "TT Resume" of riding accomplishments to be qualified to offer advice.  This shit is child's play compared to what I do for a living and this forum simply a diversion or mental break from the grind at times.

You guys think the stock bike is fine for you, good, have at it.    You think its unbalanced, washes out,  and needs something,  I have discussed the details.  BUT, don't think for a minute that just because the bike was designed that way the factory engineers know best, that's just ignorance of how product engineering and mfg. works.

How dare you belittle the life's work of so many prodigious geniuses. 

[firffighter]

1 hour ago, MalusAsinae said:

How dare you belittle the life's work of so many prodigious geniuses. 

It's a gal darn miracle those young fast guys aren't dead from racing such a chopped bike and unbalanced chassis. 

How Holcombe, Gerston, Freeman can ride these unbalanced POS chassis' is so strange. 

Even fast amateur young guys like Zak Attack  and our very own Sierra don't seem to be very bothered by this pressing and dangerous situation, which is weird.  

Thank God we have 60 year olds to remedy this situation and hopefully Factory Beta will be hiring soon.

Completely unbalanced indeed:

#unbalancedstruggleisreal

 

 

Maybe there's something these fast younger guys are missing.  Maybe if they rode along plodding at walking pace,  they'd figure it out. Poor young fast guys don't even realize how bad the situation really is!

I'm betting if they added a shopping cart to the underside of these bikes, it'd solve everything.  HDR has ensured us multiple times that his suspension is perfect and has a completely balanced bike for both fast and extreme tech. 

Reality HDR freaking genius in balancing bike? Quite possibly.  

#shoppingcartsolution

Edited June 11, 2021 by firffighter

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, firffighter said:

It's a gal darn miracle those young fast guys aren't dead from racing such a chopped bike and unbalanced chassis. 

How Holcombe, Gerston, Freeman can ride these unbalanced POS chassis' is so strange. 

Even fast amateur young guys like Zak Attack  and our very own Sierra don't seem to be very bothered by this pressing and dangerous situation, which is weird.  

Thank God we have 60 year olds to remedy this situation and hopefully Factory Beta will be hiring soon.

Completely unbalanced indeed:

#unbalancedstruggleisreal

 

 

Maybe there's something these fast younger guys are missing.  Maybe if they rode along plodding at walking pace,  they'd figure it out. Poor young fast guys don't even realize how bad the situation really is!

I'm betting if they added a shopping cart to the underside of these bikes, it'd solve everything.  HDR has ensured us multiple times that his suspension is perfect and has a completely balanced bike for both fast and extreme tech. 

Reality HDR freaking genius in balancing bike? Quite possibly.  

#shoppingcartsolution

Just imagine how much faster they'd be on a Ready 2 Race platform. That's why GasGas sales are going to put Beeta choppers out of binniss. Ready 2 Race and Red with vastly superior and perfectly balanced Kdm chassis. Game Ova.

[firffighter]

7 minutes ago, MalusAsinae said:

Just imagine how much faster they'd be on a Ready 2 Race platform. That's why GasGas sales are going to put Beeta choppers out of binniss. Ready 2 Race and Red with vastly superior and perfectly balanced Kdm chassis. Game Ova.

Yep, plus when Beta goes to FI 2-strokes, the 60 year olds will implode on turn to dust.

I can't wait to be on here in 10 years when I'm 60 and the 70 year olds are still telling everyone how to ride and set up bikes. 

By the time I'm 60, I should be a real expert, be faster than ever before,  have vast knowledge that surpasses all manufacturers engineering, and be able to really help the young poor souls who foolishly and unknowingly ride horribly setup bikes at blinding speeds.  

By then, I'll be riding a 2003 KTM passed down from Shrub and tell everyone how my bike doesn't have these problems and I just straight ride.

I promise though I won't be any more of a dick than I already am.........promise ?

Edited June 11, 2021 by firffighter

[GP]

What did I say?  I said that its influence depends on other factors.  If your running a stiff shock setup, with less sag, its mitigated.  For mere mortals though the ride is compromised doing this.  If your over the bars on the pegs all the time, same, less influence.  That is not gonna happen for most average guys lets be honest, it doesn't mean shit what the pros run, and we have no clue what has actually been done to their suspension.  I have it from a good source that Beta USA has done this mod (internally, but same result) for some of the team bikes a long time ago.   This is the only bike with such a disparity in front and rear travel (height), and interestingly the only one that comes up in conversion of being lacking in front end traction.  NOTHING else is like this.  Put down the Beta pompoms and pick up a tape measure.  

[campdirt]

12 hours ago, Johnny Depp said:

This goes back years, @GP and @hammer developed a way to insert a 4mm ball bearing between the shock shaft and clevis IIRC. At that point the sag is far less critical.

okay but on a 20-up 300 re how much do you think the shock should be lengthen?

[firffighter]

3 minutes ago, GP said:

What did I say?  I said that its influence depends on other factors.  If your running a stiff shock setup, with less sag, its mitigated.  For mere mortals though the ride is compromised doing this.  If your over the bars on the pegs all the time, same, less influence.  That is not gonna happen for most average guys lets be honest, it doesn't mean shit what the pros run, and we have no clue what has actually been done to their suspension.  I have it from a good source that Beta USA has done this mod (internally, but same result) for some of the team bikes a long time ago.   This is the only bike with such a disparity in front and rear travel (height), and interestingly the only one that comes up in conversion of being lacking in front end traction.  NOTHING else is like this.  Put down the Beta pompoms and pick up a tape measure.  

Don't get triggered Glen, if you can't tell, this is all tongue in cheek.  

Whatever works for you is great and your preference for your riding.  

There's plenty of fast amateur guys and weekend warriors that have no desire to setup their Beta's like yours. 

I love the "heard it from a good source" reference though.  That's an classic here. 

 

[GP]

Just now, campdirt said:

okay but on a 20-up 300 re how much do you think the shock should be lengthen?

I don't know, no time on one.  A couple locals got them and sold fairly quick, didn't like the new chassis.  Hammer got a '20, and also has his '13 he modded just like mine.  But he got tired of this shit show of a forum awhile ago and has not been back since.  

[firffighter]

4 minutes ago, campdirt said:

okay but on a 20-up 300 re how much do you think the shock should be lengthen?

They all should be lengthened no matter what. 

No matter your terrain,  your ability,  your riding style, your experience.  

 

[GP]

1 minute ago, firffighter said:

Don't get triggered Glen, if you can't tell, this is all tongue in cheek.  

Whatever works for you is great and your preference for your riding.  

There's plenty of fast amateur guys and weekend warriors that have no desire to setup their Beta's like yours. 

I love the "heard it from a good source" reference though.  That's an classic here. 

 

Classic from a Beta dealer/tuner

[firffighter]

5 minutes ago, GP said:

Classic from a Beta dealer/tuner

My source (Beta deale/Expert rider) has 4 Rip to Cabos, by invite, plenty of top level racing and podiums over decades of racing.  

He said forums are the worst place on earth to go for advice. ?

 

 

Edited June 11, 2021 by firffighter

[campdirt]

4 minutes ago, GP said:

I don't know, no time on one.  A couple locals got them and sold fairly quick, didn't like the new chassis.  Hammer got a '20, and also has his '13 he modded just like mine.  But he got tired of this shit show of a forum awhile ago and has not been back since.  

well i lowerd the frt.30mm.the shock was lowered to match. i guess i could always unlower the shock some and try it. rite now it turns quick with good frt.grip.at 100mm of rear sag. would like a little more rear sag. 

[GP]

8 minutes ago, firffighter said:

My source (Beta deale/Expert rider) has 4 Rip to Cabos, by invite, plenty of top level racing and podiums over decades of racing.  

He said forums are the worst place on earth to go for advice. ?

 

 

No problem, don't agree or don't trust don't do.  I'm not selling this, or breaking into shops and lengthening shocks while people sleep. I did a few favors for guys that did agree.  

Sometimes I think its not really you, and some kind of advanced AI malware picked up from HDRs media library.  It would be a good testing ground.

Edited June 11, 2021 by GP

[Johnny Depp]

18 minutes ago, campdirt said:

okay but on a 20-up 300 re how much do you think the shock should be lengthen?

The same. 

[firffighter]

Just now, GP said:

No problem, don't agree or don't trust don't do.  I'll not selling this, or breaking into shops and lengthening shocks while people sleep. I did a few favors for guys that did agree.  

Sometimes I think its not really you, and some kind of advanced AI malware picked up from HDRs media library.  It would be a good testing ground.

HDR and I are going through some bonding excercises currently to mend our relationship. 

Don't trust, don't do is the best advice you can give on an anonymous forum though.  I completely agree!

[GP]

8 minutes ago, campdirt said:

well i lowerd the frt.30mm.the shock was lowered to match. i guess i could always unlower the shock some and try it. rite now it turns quick with good frt.grip.at 100mm of rear sag. would like a little more rear sag. 

Note that the issue could always be mitigated by running a lot of preload, but the compliance and traction suffers as it would with a lot of preload.  This has been kicked around since the '13s first hit the dirt.  Much more of an issue if you ride a lot of rocks as well as low traction turns. If you add 15mm, you can run 105mm which is a good number with a stiffer spring and have excellent steering.  Like Johnny Depp said before, reduce your sag until the bike steers and sticks the front tire like you want it to, ignore the fact that the ride will get crappy.  Note this change and stretch the shock back out to get the same ride geometry without all the preload.   

[Woodschamp]

33 minutes ago, firffighter said:

Yep, plus when Beta goes to FI 2-strokes, the 60 year olds will implode on turn to dust.

I can't wait to be on here in 10 years when I'm 60 and the 70 year olds are still telling everyone how to ride and set up bikes. 

By the time I'm 60, I should be a real expert, be faster than ever before,  have vast knowledge that surpasses all manufacturers engineering, and be able to really help the young poor souls who foolishly and unknowingly ride horribly setup bikes at blinding speeds.  

By then, I'll be riding a 2003 KTM passed down from Shrub and tell everyone how my bike doesn't have these problems and I just straight ride.

I promise though I won't be any more of a dick than I already am.........promise ?

Old guys inevitably have to face the fact they Sag no matter what they lengthen ?

This guy was on the wrong forum. ?

[GP]

14 minutes ago, firffighter said:

HDR and I are going through some bonding excercises currently to mend our relationship. 

Don't trust, don't do is the best advice you can give on an anonymous forum though.  I completely agree!

I have lost count of the # of PMs and emails I have received over the last few years on how to fix the Beta front end.   Guys that did find it an issue but did not want to enter the ceaspool.  $5 in parts, less than an hour and its a different bike.  Completely reversible.  Not a high level of trust needed for that really.